I was just over at Game Trading Zone and found that at least 105 (!) people have The Watchmaker on their wanted lists.

I recently ordered WM from an on-line store for a very reasonable price so the reason for all the folks wanting to trade for it can hardly be that it´s hard to find or that it´s too expensive.

In these troubled times for adventure games I really think we all should be BUYING the new games we want rather than trade for them and use GTZ for getting those older, harder to get, out of print games instead. In the long run I believe that´s the only way to encourage Trecision (in this case) to continue releasing adventure games in the future.

Well, just a thought... What do YOU think?

I agree totally people should buy the games and only swap as a last resort for the older games you cant buy anymore.

I agree. Not that I want to tell people how to trade and with what, ha-ha-ha-ha! But I always get a bit surprised when I notice new titles that aren't all that expensive, looked for in trades.

Absolutely right!!

It aggrivates me when I see people looking to get a game for trade (or worse) that is readily available.

If we don't support the new games in the market place - there won't be new games to be bought, traded or anything else.

I think the most bizarre example of this was where someone was offering to sell their copy of Dark Fall for more than it cost to get it new from Jonathan. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />

Laura

Do you all feel the same about selling games you have played?

Hi ya', Duststorm and all!

I don't think any of us feels exactly the same way about much of anything for that matter....LOL!

Here's where I'm coming from: I support buying new games whereever and whenever possible (unless they aren't available anymore in store fronts or online), particularly when they are now being sold for the most part at a very reasonable price! That's the only way we can collectively support and encourage the life of the adventure gaming industry. Otherwise, someday we'll only have old games to play. There won't be any new ones coming....

Love, Witchen =O)

Duststorm,

Witchen said it - I also doubt there are many things that we all agree on. My first post was probably just an out of the gut reaction to the number of people looking for a game that is available everywhere and was just released months ago. If a person is looking to trade or sell a game that they don't wish to keep that is one thing and varies from person to person. But when you have 100+ people seeking to buy a used game that they could easily get for the same price - that is a bit disturbing.

It can't be a positive thing for the publisher seeking to justify continued expenditures on new adventure game development.

Laura

Duststorm, I believe everyone has the right to do pretty much what they want with what is theirs after they have bought it, including selling it or using it in a trade. What SURPRISES me though, is that so many gamers seem determined NOT to buy a game they want in spite of the fact that the game in question is both easily found and inexpensive.

And then there is what you call inexpensive and what I call inexpensive...frankly I have not purchased either Jazz & Faust or Watchmaker yet as it is going for 29.95 online + shipping and same price in the retail stores. I will strive to purchase it new but want the price to come down. I am all for supporting the new game makers and distributors too. Witchen said it very nicely and I agree with her.
(I would not deal with GTZ no matter what nor eBay either - just don't feel comfortable with their way of doing things).
Love, Betty Lou

Would you let a friend borrow a newer game, even if you uninstalled it? Same difference...

(just playing devil's advocate)

I agree that it's better to trade for those old out of print games instead of those currently available. I've even noticed games not released yet on GTZ wanted lists, and games that aren't even in production, like Tex Murphy Polarity. (planed as a the next sequel years ago, before Microsoft bought Access Software).

While GTZ is great for those hard to find games, but I must admit I now regret trading some of my older games!

Louis

When I was a kid I was into comic books big time. At that time they were a nickel or a dime. Trading was something you did as a normal thing. I'm sure I traded off the original Superman, Spiderman, Batman, and several others now worth big bucks. I believe Marvel Comics is still in business bigtime and charging fine prices for their books. If trading didn't ruin them then why should I expect it to ruin the makers of PC games? Sorry, I can't agree with many of you but that's the way I see it.

I agree with the idea that the adventure gamers who have the means should pick up all new games at retail prices (as a post-level-7 BAAG lady, I'm certainly doing what I can to keep the sales figures up ).

However, I still remember how it felt to be on a tight budget as a student, coveting that new adventure game, but buying the mandatory pathology book instead... <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/pacify.gif" />

Another reason for trying to trade for a new game (fx. the new ND) is that it's not readily available in all parts of the world. Many on-line retailers don't ship internationally, and some of those who do charge very high. For an example, Dreamcatcher charges about $60 for shipping one game!

IMHO, there might be a reason for at least some of the requests for new games at GTZ.

Karin

I will trade for new games that are just released no matter what the price is. Why—because I don’t have unlimited funds as many as you seem to have. If it wasn’t for trading there would have been so many games I would have missed out on. Trading is completely legal. Ideally I would like to buy every game out if I could afford to. But what do I do when I am finished with them. I never replay any games. Should I just throw them away then.

When I do buy games and buy plenty I normally only buy when they go on sale for a substantial savings. This is one reason why I don’t do mail order along with the fact that some places like Dreamcatcher have unbelievably high shipping plus sales tax and places like Amazon I get hit with taxes too. The rare time I do mail order will only be when there is a great deal like at the 48 hour madness sale at gogamer.

T. Ritter—everyone’s idea of what is expensive and what isn’t is different.

Now I do agree if someone is going to buy a used game at the same cost as a new one than they should certainly buy it new especially if it is a small company.

I'm going to have to agree with Billy Bob and Zanthia here. I'm all for trading.

Money isn't an issue here, as I can well afford to buy games. And I do buy most of the new ones that come out for the simple reason that I don't want to wait. But once I am done playing them, I will not replay them. I don't have an unlimited amount of room to keep them. And I absolutely refuse to throw something perfectly good away. Why not let somebody else enjoy it, while at the same time saving yourself some money by getting a game that you want in trade, even if it is readily available to buy?

I honestly do see the need to keep the developers in business. And I do feel somewhat guilty when I trade or buy a used game. But the bottom line is that I'm trying to save money and at the same time, rid myself of perfectly good items that would otherwise get thrown away or sit on a shelf forever gathering dust.

This is also how I feel about books. I buy and sell my books at half.com. Again, I feel bad because an author is not getting their cut. But again, am I supposed to toss out a perfectly good book that I'm never going to read again?

Just my take on things.

Dawn

Betty Lou, you can get Jazz & Faust at amazon used for $19. Not exactly cheap, but hey! Just trying to help.

Why is it only computer games???Do I have to call maytag and tell them I bought a used washer and give them a cut???

Hi.

Personally I don't reckon it's wise to condemn people out of hand because they're for looking to trade for a new or new-ish game

please somebody hide this thread from TSS!!!!!

I agree with Billybob, Zanthia and Dawn.
There are a whole bunch of games that arent released for months, if ever out here in Western Australia, and I refuse to pay $60-$70 for postage which is what some of the online stores charge.
My hubbie and I are always buying games, so we are doing our little bit to support game developers etc, but if there is a game I want that I know isnt going to be released out here, then an option for me is to trade. Plus if I hadnt joined gametz I wouldnt have met so many wonderful people

WOW! Everyone has a different point of view and what's really amazing is that everyone is right! I do a lot of buying and trading. I do believe in supporting the game companies and buy way more than I should sometimes. (Just ask that cowering C.C. next to my puter) But I also trade for a lot, usually the older games, but occassionally a new game too. Money is a big factor for most people and most of us are trying to save a buck or two when we can. If it's a game I really want I don't think twice about spending $50, but for a game that I'm on the fence about, $30 seems like an awful lot. Case in point, Jerusalem. Heard the game was less than what it should have been, (how's that for tact Laura?) but still wanted to take a look at it. Decisions, spend that $30 for a game that an established company produced or spend it on a new developer? I traded for Jerusalem and spent the money for Darkfall. And I'm quite happy with my choice.

I love buying through E-Bay and Half.com, but really have to laugh when I see a game selling used for more than a brand new copy. New games, used games, buy, trade, sell.......I do them all. I even buy several copies of new games sometimes to trade for older hard to get games. Bought 3 extra copies of Syberia and traded them for somethings I wanted within a few days.

But more than anyone else I agree with Fongo......hide this thread quick!

If you'll excuse me now, that C.C. has hidden in a drawer again and there is an auction I have to get to.

Hugs, Cheryl

Everyone has stated financial reasons in defense of trading games but no one, with the exception of Billy Bob, has mentioned the social aspect. How many traders have made friends through on-line trading? This shouldn't be left out of the equation.

Hi Scout.

I Plead Guilty !!!!!

I've made a lot of nice friends through trading games

Cheers.

Mad

Scout, you are so right! Many of my games I treasure dearly, but not as much as all the wonderful friends that I have made. And the many more I hope to make.

Hugs, Cheryl

I'd be willing to bet that there are a lot of people out there that regret paying full price for Chateau D'Or now.

There will always be people out there looking for a better deal, be it games or clothes or appliances. To each his own.

Hopefully, there are enough of us supporting the gaming industry, including the independent games, by paying full price.

Zanthia and Betty Lou, I´m not exactly rich myself. What I was trying to say was that WM is reasonably low in price compared to a lot of other games and that the price hardly can explain all the WM:s on the GTZ wanted lists. I didn´t mean "inexpensive" as in "anyone should be able afford it anytime". Really sorry if I have offended anyone.

My main point stands though, and it´s not about what you legally are entitled to do or not or what you do with your bought and used games. It´s about having the developers/publishers in mind when you´re putting one of their recently published or soon to be published games on your wanted lists at GTZ. If you still feel that for some good reason you should be trading for it, then fine. What bothers me is that some people seem to as a matter of routine put yet to be or recently published games on those lists.

Not to mention the pain in the a** it is when you get a match for, say, Broken sword 3 when you´re doing a "my matches" search...

Most of the times I trade games because I didn't like it or didn't work on my computer. And I do support the game developers. There are a whole lot of games new coming out and I want to buy them all. But can't afford some of them. Like some boomers here said, I will wait until the price has gone down. And if someone wants to trade their new game for an old game I have even if it is available, that is the traders choice.

I think we all here have done their share of supporting the game developers, and will continue to do so no matter what. Or we won't have anymore games to buy or trade. But they should be afforable.

If we continue to buy games and trade games in my opinion the adventure game keeps growing and the developers will keep making great games, and maybe, maybe the prices will go down, and will be able to afford most of them But, you have to support them. I love adventure games and I would do my best to keep or help in anyway to keep it strong.

That's my opinion.

Liz

I have done this for years now, and I will keep on doing it..... There are SO many games out there that I want to get that I couldn't possibly keep up with all of their titles, their websites, their release dates, and I am sure that if I didn't list them there I would forget some of the games that I really wanted to get down the road.... Just my two cents....

As for trading games, I think it is a great idea! It may introduce traders to a new style of game that they may not have known about previously, and may stimulate their interest in purchasing future games from those publishers...

It seems you are saying that I should just purchase all of my games "new" and directly from the publisher's and let them sit here on my shelves gathering dust for years after I have played them until they become "rare" so that I can go trade them... Not gonna happen... (Although I would be happy to do this if someone else is gonna flip the bill....everyone isn't born with a silver spoon, ya know....)

So I can say that it is very nice for those who have "money" to keep buying the games retail, but everyone can't do that....... And I don't think we should have to be "punished" by not being allowed to play the games that we would like to play just because we aren't rich..... You may say $20-$30 isn't that much money, but multiply that times a couple of dozen (estimate of newly released adventure games this year) and we are talking big bucks!

Again, just my two cents.....

Am I the only person that just enjoys so much that feeling you get with a brand new game, taking off the shrink rap, reading through the manual (that isn't covered in coffee stains and creased)... its not the same with 2nd hand stuff!

Deano, I know exactly what you are talking about. I have games I bought in the last 2 years that are still in the shrinkwrap, just so I can get that "rush" with the new shrinkwrap and clean manual every so often, whenever the mood hits me.

I sure like what Mad said. Why should we judge what others do( as long as it isn't illegal, immoral, ah you get the drift). I put new games on my wanted list when there is no way I will buy them new, such as brand new RPGs that I may or may not enjoy, would like to take a look at, but won't pay sixty dollars for the privilege. I have the new Nancy Drew on my available - I bought it as a gift for someone, and it turns out they already had it. So exactly what should I do with it, if I don't trade it?
And I do very well remember the days when I was a very poor college student, and would have loved to have been able to trade for games. Unfortunately there wasn't anything like gametz or gameboomers back then! So I wasn't helping the industry much on my meager purchases of a few games, and not trading.
I tend to buy all the adventure games I see, but I sure don't feel guilty about trading ones that aren't keepers.

Nickie brings up a good point! I recently traded a game with someone from Australia and was very surprised to have it arrive still in the shrinkwrap. When I asked about it, he said that he bought 2 new ones to begin with... one to keep and one to trade because all games were not readily available in his country and he 'had' to trade to be able to play some of the ones that he couldn't buy!

We in the US are so lucky to have so many resources available to us may not realize what other people have to do.

It is useful for me if I can buy a new game for someone in order to trade for an old one that isn't available any more. In the past I've even bought 2 new games to trade for a rare older one. Also, if a person is overseas, it may be cheaper to mail them a game in trade than to get currency converted so that they can use it.

In my woolly headed way I agree with everyone as points have been made "for both sides" so well. If I had not been on gametz I would never have been pointed towards Gameboomers by Marcie.

Some people(like me) put new games on their wanted list because I know I will forget about them if not. I am still playing games 5-6 yrs old and never have to look forward to adventures in production as I have such a huge pile to play.

I do feel that I should buy new as well which is why my local Game shop knows me very well, my excuse for buying a shrink wrapped game is that I am supporting the industry.

Well, I do a lot of trading (under "DaveF" on Gametz) and agree with Zanthia about not finding it objectionable in any way. Some games are finished quickly and/or not liked and part of my permanent 300+ game collection. I'd rather get rid of them, preferably for another I'm not sure I want to drop $30 to $50 on. BTW, my rule of thumb is $15. If, as is the case with Harry Potter this week for example, I can get a game new for $15 or less, I'll go that route. With the $4 cost of priority mail with delivery confirmation, that means the new title is only $10 to $11 net. BTW, also, don't you just hate it when you don't get any reply on gametz? I've had two occasions in the last couple of weeks where, in spite of a reminder mail, I've not had the courtesy of a response at all to reasonable offers (Jazz & Faust for something in both cases) - and this discourtesy with adventure gamers, no less! O.R.

Okay...now here's MY ten cents! LOL

I don't think that ANYone on THIS board needs to feel ANY amount of guilt in the "supporting the game developers" issue! I, as well as most of you, do my fair share of buying full price new, eBay, Game Trading Zone, and Boomers trades and purchases. I have done EVERY combination of financial and trade haggling to get another game that I haven't played, believe me!

I am a student AND a single mother, and money does not grow on trees outside of MY house, to be sure! I actually had to quit buying lattes and cappuccinos at Starbucks to support my gaming habits. (And THIS month, my son and I, who BOTH play games, although different genres....are not going to be able to go to McDonald's or anywhere ELSE for that matter, because of our game expenditures!) You DO what you ENJOY the most.

So far this month, I have purchased, from the game stores 2 brand new games. WHEN there are new adventures to buy, for instance the upcoming Post Mortem and Black Mirror...I *usually* buy them brand new. I bought Dark Fall immediately, as well. However....I have no problem in trading for them with someone who had already played them if I can't afford them any other way!

We really JOKE about it alot around here, you know...BAAGS, BUT...I believe that this can TRULY be an addiction...the playing and just the OBTAINING of games. And like any other addiction...I, personally, will do about ANYthing to get ahold of an adventure that I haven't played yet! AND....I don't always *necessarily* stop to think how my addiction is going to affect everyone around me, including the developers, fellow addicts, my family, friends, etc. In all seriousness...this really CAN be a disease. I'm not in denial...I KNOW that I have it.

I believe it is also important to support the connective companies which provide the integral links to certain games.I am referring to,of course,Dreamcatcher Games.I have a strong memory of the mid-1990's.In particular how very difficult it was for me to locate and purchase Cryo computer games.There was no North American Telephone number. There was no North American customer-order number at that time either....Back then I was living in Manhattan and of all places,if Cryo HAD been available I would have had access in such a grande city as this.I just simply got lucky once in a blue moon and found Cryo games in a computer boutique or a computer gaming store.I would feel greatly distressed if Cryo's Canadian Link (Dreamcatcher) were to ever be disbanded or go out of business. This is why I spend an extra amount of money sending my purchases directly to the Canadian branch in Toronto rather than utilise a more expedited and cheaper method such as E.B.Games,for instance,in Las Vegas <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/woozy.gif" />

No offense taken here. And I am happy (again) to see that all us GBers can agree to disagree without there being hurt feelings.....
Love, Betty Lou

I buy new, I buy used, I trade if I have anything to do it with, borrow if I cannot get it any other way and I do not feel guilty for doing it. The very fist game I have ever played was a loan from a friend (Myst). I got hooked on the spot, soon after I got the BAAGs.
I think we all should be able to do what we can according to our circumstances with our property without having to worry about the displeasure of others.
Buying new, used or trading all generate interest one way or another, these actions and the discussions about them are the best FREE advertisement any game designer/developer/distributor can have or ask for.

Wow, how this one has lived on!

Once again, I have NOT intended to "condemn" or "judge" anyone and, as I stated above, it´s of course everyones right to do whatever they want with a game they own, including using it in a trade. And as I also stated above I´m aware of that there can be good reasons to obtain a newly released game by trading too.

But finding 100+ of a game that´s easily obtainible (DVD Box Office doesn´t charge anyhing for shipping internationally BTW) and, dare I say it, reasonably priced on the GameTZ wanted lists simply got me thinking. And with Cryo and Presto being only the latest of the adventure games developers/publishers to take their signs down I really think there are good reasons for reacting the way I did. I´m not telling anyone what to do, only to think before doing it.

TRitter,

I think someone else already mentioned it, and I forgot to...

I use my GameTZ wanted list, as "notes to myself." I won't remember the names of the new games coming out that I want, if I don't keep a permanent list somewhere! For example, I just added Black Mirror to it, because....I will forget that it's coming by the time it is released! I then, usually, purchase the game and delete it from my wanted list. I BET that myself and this other person are not the only people who do that! GTZ is a convienient place to keep a list of wants!

Companies/developers come and go, it is like this in all business. It is presumptuous to say that they went out of business because some of their product was resold or traded. If that was true no business could survive.
Ever since I joined the board I have been reading about how the genre is dying out, this in a year when we had a bumper crop of adventure games, new and innovative people joined the ranks of developers and a couple of companies closed their doors for reasons of their own. This is a normal cycle of business and not the decline of anything.

what do you think of the following:
I buy my games if they are available in my country. but so many games never have been released here:
the nancy drew games, watchmaker, jazz and faust, eye of the kracken. so if I can do a trade I am very happy with it. I do not own a creditcard. Years ago I had one, so I ordered some games I couldn't buy in my country and saw that I had to pay 3 times the original price, shipping and custum so for me it is not worth to buy with a creditcard at amazon, cd-access or other internetshops.
so when someone wants to trade with me I am very happy with it as I wrote above.

Margaret, I have exactly the same problem. A long time ago when I didn't know about the possiblity of trading, I used to buy some games through Amazon and Chips&Bytes but it was very, very expensive with the shipping and customs. Her in Brazil we don't get the huge amount of titles available... I believe that 0,5 in 10 is released here. The lastest super adventure game we got was Myst 3... and only that since Gabriel Knight 3! I don't know about the other game styles but this is our situation for adventures.

So, if it weren't for Gameboomers and GTZ I would have starved of gaming.

Ah, I also use my GTZ wanted list as a reminder of the games I want, just as Girlgeek said.