I'm sure that most of us, if we look at the licensing agreement at all, seldom read it in much, if any, detail. I finally installed "Harvest" today and learned that one of the requirements for "using" this game (we don't own it, only the disk it's on) is that we cannot loan it out.

This requirement may be present in other licensing agreements but it's the first time I recall seeing it. If some of these games, and eventually all, I imagine, are going to put this into their licensing requirements maybe the disc should cost less since that's all we're buying.

Seems odd doesn't it? Buying something only to find a licence which says you don't own it in the normal sense of own.

Coins have two sides. Trading swapping loaning copying for friends all mean people playing the game but the developer getting nothing. It's a little contradictory to expect new commercial games and expect technical support for them yet not worry about the developer's income.

Billybob, the License Agreement that is included with "Harvest" is a "generic" - you know the deal - one of these fill-in-the-blank jobs, sort of like those fill-in-the-blank wills you can buy. I went through and inserted my name and the games name in all appropriate spots. I really don't remember seeing the part about not letting anyone loan the game out, but I'm not surprised it's in there. These license things are so long and so detailed. I personally have absolutely no problem with anyone loaning the game out - or trading - or re-selling - or pretty much anything. I'm not a legal person, and generally, don't really understand half of what's in these types of agreements - but I did have to put a license agreement in the game to protect the game. So anyone reading this, please, FEEL FREE to loan the game out to anyone you want.

Most, if not all, license agreements will have something about loaning - I think what it really refers is the act of "public lending", rather then trying to stop you loaning it out to a friend or relative - if you were offering to loan it to anyone who happened by, you would, to all intents and purposes, be loaning it to the public - video/game rental stores are allowed to do this through purchasing special copies of games and movies or however they do it because that's the business they are in and the developers make money from these "legitimate" loans.

A lot of things now, especially DVDs are marked "Rental Copy" or " Retail Copy - NOT for rental", so you know exactly whch version you have - so, a rental store found renting "Retail" copies would be in trouble as they wouldn't have paid the same (as they would for rental copies) for them and therefore the developers would be out of pocket.

I'm sure this is the reason why the "floating game" thing was stopped on this site - since Game Boomers is a public forum where anybody can join, lending out games to people who simply add their name to a list, amounts to public lending.

And you never own what's on the disc - that belongs to the copyright holders.

Feel free anyone, to correct me if I am wrong.

Dan.

This is an excerpt from the Harvest agreement:

"You have no right to sublicense, resell, lease, rent or [b]loan "Harvest" without the express written permission of Michael B. Clark."[/b]

As a kid I was among the neighborhood borrowers and loaners/traders and sellers of comic books. At five cents they were still a problem to buy. After all, being a kid with no income, a nickle was a lot. Eventually they rose to ten cents a copy. Was this caused by the loaning/trading/selling of comics? Doesn't matter, really, because I have to assume the price increase took care of the problem to the satisfaction of all those who had a hand in the comic before I bought it. The difference between then and now is that no one thought of stopping all this by making it illegal. Once we have lost the right to own what we have bought then we will find this practice used in everything.......everything! Already, prices rise because not enough people are buying to keep the "profit margin" up or they are rising because everyone is buying and the profit can be greater.

Of course, it is not important (in the long run) to me personally. I won't be around to see what all this brings about. So, if you accept without question all the changes that are occurring from day to day you will one day find yourself with little to call your own. Actually, it is already that way to a large degree but few people seem able to comprehend it. If you live long enough, you will.

Long ago, only the poor lived on waterfront property. Then the more well-to-do folks began wanting to live on the water. Waterfront property was either bought at a price higher than it's worth at the time or politicians taxed the poor folks out and the rich got it anyway. Now all waterfront property is valued and high priced and only the rich can afford it. The analogy to the above is a little hard to see untill you realize that those in power are going to squeeze the rest of the people as hard and as long as they are permitted to do so. Aren't the "people" supposed to be the ones in power?

I am well aware that many will think all this foolish but that's O.K., I understand.

If I buy a book and loan it to my friend after I read it, have I stolen from the author/publisher? Do I own the book, or have I just purchased a license to read it?

Like I said, it's highly unlikely you will be sued and forced into a court battle for loaning a game to your friend, because a: who's going to know about it, and b: would it really be worth the expense to the developer/publisher?

However if you stood outside your house and proclaimed to everyone around that they could come and rent/borrow games off you, and they could tell everyone they knew about this, and they could also come, and people could also log onto your website to put in an order, then that's going to be a different matter - I really don't see that as a problem or as anything new - people who create things, whatever they may be, have the right to do with them as they please, and also to govern how they are used and distributed.

Books are a different matter - there isn't anywhere that rents books as far as I know - there are libraries of course, but they are allowed to loan out books, and if I'm not mistaken are entitled to a free copy of every book published, on the proviso it is loaned out for free.

Also, prices of things like games and movies rise because of the ever increasing mass illegal market that sees millions of illegal copies changing hands every year, making the "pirates" lots of cash, and the developers and publishers nothing! This has been made even worse in recent years thanks to the internet and the ability to download anything you like for nothing, resulting in even less legitimate copies being sold - many more millioons are lost to the game industry as a whole every year due to these problems, than are made through the sale of legitimate copies.

I guess though that that's alright - game developers are rich, they can afford it right? They sell zillions of copies and make zillions of dollars - while this may be true for some games such as GTA3, which admittedly did sell a heck of a lot copies (money also made to Take 2 through an exclusive PS2 deal), it is simply not true for smaller developers, who struggle sometimes to even sell 100,000 copies of a game - imagine if those 100,000 legitimate copies sold were only 100,000 of 400,000 actually "bought" by people through all available channels, and you can see the problem.

Let's not forget where a lot of this "pirate" money goes - drugs, arms, terrorism - and more - organsied criminal gangs will make money any way they can, and usually through the fastest, easiest, and most effective ways possible, such as ripped of software, games, and movies - we're getting slightly off topic here but still worth mentioning.

I've also seen teenage kids on message boards telling of how, now they have cable internet, they're going to download games, copy them and sell them to their friends - while this is not in the same league as mass produced illegal product, it still amounts to a problem, and just adds to the amount lost overall.

Don't forget also, games are getting more and more complicated and take longer and longer to make - games can be in development for up to 4 years and have a whole army of staff behind them, and costs millions more each year to make - some increase in price is a natural bi-product of those changing technological innovations.

Things just aren't as simple and laid back today as they might have been years ago - business has grown and grown - raising money for projects is becoming harder and harder, resulting in more and more people being involved in any one project, all of whom want a piece of the pie - financiers and investors want a return on their investment, sponsors want exclusive deals for this and that, and they want this in return for that - there are so many things going on, you NEED a license agreement that governs everything and its dog, just to cover yourself in case someone tries to rip you, as the developers/publisher, off - it's not about trying to stop you personally lending out a copy of something to a friend, it's about stopping mass groups of organsied career criminals from making money through unlicensed means - how can you be against that?

Phewwwww, that was a long one eh?
Anyone else have any thoughts? I'm off back to my Harry Potter, which I CERTAINLY WILL NOT be lending out to anyone

Dan.

And Michael just said in his post "I personally have absolutely no problem with anyone loaning the game out - or trading - or re-selling - or pretty much anything."--so I guess we're off the hook...

Oh - I wish that's the case here... libraries (at least here in Australia) are definitely not entitled to a free copy of every book published... and libraries here get such a measly amount of funding from councils that they're often forced to sell older copies of their books that nobody reads anymore just to scrap in (barely) enough money to buy 1 copy of a new release.

Oh BTW - there are stores that lease out comic books and stuff... Usually those anime comics I admit, so not the usual types of books you'd see in the libraries...

...as for that particular line in license agreements about not lending games out to friends, it only exists for some license agreements I believe (alas, I am one of those bored people that have nothing better to do than read through the software contracts out of curiosity). Anyhow - out of all the games contract I've read so far I've only seen 1 other games where lending of game was mentioned - and it only refers to the lending of games under a commercial environment (which was not permitted). Any other form of lending is apparently ok. I guess there's quite a few "standard" software contracts out there...

Now, as for how effective the licensing agreement is in the battle against piracy, I am not sure I've heard from anywhere where its effectiveness has won for its company a great deal of lost profits etc... except for Microsoft that is People seem to be pirating as much as ever (if not more than the past)... I do my bit to help companies survive by purchasing legal softwares, but given my limited abilities, that's all I can do.

Personally though, I still don't see why there's anything wrong with lending games (or books or audio CDs etc) out especially to friends without the intention of making money or making a copy...

Here's a brief aside on libraries and books - in the US, libraries have to buy them. You know, I bet that's how it is in the UK too. As for getting rid of books, all libraries do that, even well funded libraries - it's called "weeding". You can't keep everything forever, so you make judgements as to what to keep in your collection. Also, it doesn't make sense to keep all books - examples are "how to books" for computers, which date rather quickly. (Aside, there is a librarian in my family, so I learned this stuff). You also throw out books in bad condition. We aren't talking about the rare 1st edition novel here, depending on the library those are books a library will keep, and if it's really valuable, it won't circulate - you only get to look at in the library.

As for software - you don't own ANY commercial software you buy - you never did. As far as I know, you have a license to use the software, and that's it. This is not new. The exception is open source software such as Linux. The Linux operating system software is free (it's "open source") and you can even modify the source code. Different companies can charge you for Linux (the packaging, extra services, etc.) but the software is open source and it's free.

I think Michael was very smart to include a license agreement. We know he's a good guy, but he has to protect himself and his work.

oh - weeding out books are to be expected naturally But libraries in Sydney seem to be doing an extraordinary amount of weeding... they're definitely getting a lot less books than a library normally sells... and books are still expensive even though libraries here don't have to pay taxes on them.

Well this is why I hate generic contracts and forms. I know there's little choice for people who have to watch their money - but want to give themselves protection. The problem with them is that they are overbroad, have everything known to man in them - whether it's relevant, helpful or even correct given the ever changing sea of laws. Every time a court rules - the law is altered. Of course I am very biased on this as I write contracts/ legal forms for a living. With a clear preference and goal to have them written in lucid and plain english . Granted there are always a couple of "terms of the art" type phrases that have to be present for "legal" reasons - all would be much better with contracts, documents and user manuals that people can understand, easily and without a legal dictionary at their side.

But the main thing is "common sense should rule" No one is going to know, care or prove you loaned a game and technically there's nothing wrong with lending your game. You can re-sell it so lending certainly wouldn't be a problem. Trust me - if selling used games wasn't permitted - oportunistic attorneys all over the place would be raking in the bucks going after EBay.

Laura

Laura you're speaking about countries like the US and UK when you say when a court makes a ruling the law is changed. That's case law (IIRC) but that isn't the way law works in say France. (They have statute law is it?) That's by the by.

What can we do to ensure new games keep arriving on a website near us? Some people will do games out of love as a hobby (and good for them.) But if you want more Syberias then somehow a team of people needs to be funded to produce them.

Buskers carry on a long tradition of passing round the hat to collect money after a performance. Perhaps shareware is a good model - if there was a culture of "I really liked that game so I'll reward the creator" that'll avoid a lot of worries about piracy and copying and licences.

But in the Internet age there's an expectation of everything is free. Wonder with shareware what fraction of people actually give?

Regards, Peter.

You may be right about libraries - that was just off the top of my head.

My comments about piracy were in relation to increasing retail prices rather than license agreements. "Pirates" care nothing of licenses or copyright laws - piracy, especially with games will always be around until we get rid of the attitude that games cost the earth just because developers are greedy and want to rip us off, or the absurd notion that piracy is not a problem.

I do remember actually a certain video rental store in a town near me, that used to buy one rental copy, and then run off around 10 extra copies of it to rent out - they used the video sleeves marked "sample" in each copied version - of course these video sleeves were marked "sample" to prevent that very thing - needless to say, they are no longer in business.

Generic contracts can, I guess, be bad things - but what first tine indie developer can afford to pay huge lawyer fees? Without a lawyer it's difficult to know exactly what the law is, and what you need to do specifically to cover yourselves, so you have to revert to a generic pre-written statement.

One things though - if a license agreements says you can't sell/trade/loan a game, then by law I guess you can't, not once you've agreed - I wonder though since these agreements are usually on the condition that you install and play a game, whether if you didn't install or play it, you could in effect rent them out???

These kinds of things are minefields, and that's anothe reason you have to cover everything - because if you do ever need to go to court, the opposition will be doing everythign they can to find loopholes in your agreements and the law to get out of it - and if you've covered everything from loaning the game to using the disc as a coaster once you're done, then you've a better chance of coming out of it on top.

The thing about libraries - here in the UK, as well as the other countries mentioned, libraries have to pay for books. However, there are a few libraries, known as copyright libraries, which do get a copy of every book or journal published in the UK for free. The two I know of are the British Library in London, and Oxford University's Bodleian Library. They often have books published outside of the UK as well, but have to pay for these I think. Neither of these libraries lend books - you can only read them in the library itself. Membership is also restricted, to scholars or people who can show a need to use the books.

Another thing that occurs to me - in the UK, books say inside them something like "This book is sold subject to the condition that it shall not, by way of trade or otherwise, be lent, resold, hired out or otherwise circulated without the publisher's consent in any form of binding or cover other than that in which it is published and without a similar condition including this condition being imposed on the subsequent purchaser".

Hrmn - practically every friend I know and spoken to realises that developers are not "greedy" and that piracy is indeed a problem. So attitude from these 2 perspective are definitely not the problem here.

The following are a few scenarios I've encountered through my friends about the issue of legal/pirated games...

One scenario is my friends want games and they don't see why they have to pay for something which their other friends got for free... and so the trend begins.

The other scenario (though much rarer) is they can't afford the game. Some of my friends will buy as many games their budget allows, then pirate the rest.

Yet another scenario is my friends don't see the game as something they'd bother buy or play much - but they are merely curious... so they'll pirate, play the game once through, then wipe it off the hard-drive or give the pirated CD away (or return it to the person who lent it to them if it's borrowed). However, they will buy games that they intend on replaying over in the future.

Another possible case is they can't find the game they want when they visit the shops - so they'll think to themselve "stuff this - I've made the effort to buy the game, but there simply isn't one for sale - I might as well download it"...

The final scenario is sort of a catch-22 situation - they aren't willing to pay so much for a particular game they'll quickly lose attention over, so they pirate... but then piracy causes the prices to rise...

So as you can see from the above, there's a wide array of reasons why people don't buy the legal version of games - and as demonstrated from the above, it's definitely a difficult issue to address...

As far as I am concerned, pirating softwares and games are just like shoplifting - and it is only with this attitude that I purchase legal games (although like real life purchases, I sometimes exclaim with a sigh at a bad bargain or choice). I observed the ability to sell/trade games through ebay and gtz helps - but not much.

Personally, I tolerate a little piracy in the following manner - if I am unsure if the game is something I want or not, and there's no demo (or if the demo is extremely large and there happens to be a copy I could quickly borrow for a day or 2), then I'd play on the pirated version for about a hour to get an idea of whether I like the game or not. Regardless of the outcome, I will stop playing after that 1 hour and return the pirated version to my friend, and then I'll either buy the game or not. I find this comparable to say trying on a suit whilst shopping for suits - after all, you don't buy a suit before you try it out to make sure it fits you.

There is a definite opinion overall that piracy hurts nobody because the companies involved can afford it - it's not just games, it's movies, and music - are we forgetting the Napster uproar? Now that Napster is all but dead, or at least the Napster how it used to be, we have other things like Kazaa springing up, which are no different and a much bigger problem than Napster ever was - you can go on Kazaa and get anything you want.

Your friends may not think that developers are greedy etc. and may agree piracy is wrong, but this is not the overall opinion - people can understand that piracy is illegal but that's as far as they get - the attitude that it doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't really matter prevails over all else, I think - if it didn't then piracy would not exist and wouldn't be a problem - and the feeling that companies are greedy and want to make as much money as possible any way they can is all too present - "if a blank CD cost me 50 cents how can a game cost me 50 dollars?", is one attitude they have - they don't seem to grasp the idea that making games costs money in areas beyond the actual physical production of the CD and packaging - they will think nothing of paying $5 for a game, movie, CD off a guy on a market stall - why? - because it's a lot lot cheaper - and while this may be the underlying reason for buying the game, it doesn't stop anyone sleeping at night, or have them worrying that the developers are now out of pocket.

Of course not everyone shares these views, and most dedicated gamers will not touch pirated games - but don't forget the majority of the gaming public do not visit Game Boomers or any online forum - the people who do visit forums regularly and who DO understand the problems of piracy and who DO feel it wrong, are not the majority and are not the problem.

Piracy is NEVER right - just because you want to try out a game and don't intend to ever really play it, doesn't mean you can go buy a pirated game - you are still giving money to criminals who will put it to use elsewhere in yet more criminal activities.

Dan.

hrmn - I think the problem here is people do realise companies get hurt in some way or another - but they couldn't care less about it. Most people only say "they didn't realise companies get hurt" as an excuse I find. I've spoken to a few of my friends and their view about that is as follows:

If a games (or software) company goes down - who cares? another one will spring up in time... that's their perspective... there will always be a software company that will make a software for this and that...

Movie industry are less affected (compared to the software and music industries that is) because people still go to cinemas for the "experience" - and that's still where they rake in a significant portion of the money...

Music industry, though, I know is severely hampered by the recent trend... but most people I know who get illegal music couldn't care less either - because they have the opinion there will always be another music artist that will make the music they like...

Unfortunately, I don't think there's a viable way to solve any of the above perspectives relating to the music and software industry... perhaps the only way to solve such attitude amongst the general public is to boycott the customers by refusing to make any more of a certain product until people do the right thing - which obviously won't work in the commercial sense...

PS. any idea how much money criminals and gangs gain through pirating software, music and movies?? I'd be curious about its influence...

This is the attitude you must have in order to resist the pirating temptation. It can seem rigid and a bit prudish -- until your favorite software developer goes belly up and you know their work is available for free through pirates.

I've been offered pirated games by friends who felt they were being extremely generous -- it's as though knowing how to pirate is regarded as a kind of gift you can give the unitiated, unexperienced computer user.

Maybe we need a Software Developer Sim game -- where piracy in certain scenarios puts your character out of business. I think that at least some of the piracy is a simple lack of putting yourself in the other person's shoes.

Of course, part of the argument is that small scale, end user piracy ISN'T really the problem, and everyone knows it, including industry insiders and law enforcement officials.

No, Joe Q. Pirate and his borrowed-and-burned copy of Syberia are not toppling the games industry. The (potential) loss of individual sales from consumer copying amount to peanuts. Otherwise lending, trading, and re-selling WOULD be made illegal.

The problem is really in large scale illegal distribution, as others have noted. This is true in music with Napster, etc., movies with bootleg homemade recordings and illegal DVD's, and games with warez and pirated CD's.

Hopefully governments can get together and help stop this kind of larger scale piracy. Every time I go to eBay Canada, I have to wade through a slew of auctions for cheap "new" games from Thailand or Belarus. I'm 100% for raising public awareness and promoting strong ethical values, but it's still not good enough to sit on our hands while people commit crimes right in plain view and pretty much thumb their noses at the law. I say let's lynch 'em!

I'm not discounting each individual's responsibility, of course. But you'll never be able to penetrate SOME people's apathy about the issue if action isn't taken to stop it on the grand scene.

Jack

I think people generally overall, not just a few people you know, but overal, think piracy does not affect anyone as it's not really a problem.

And I'm unsure how much criminal gangs make, but if you imagine a $3 billion loss to the games industry due to piracy, then you can imagine, it's quite lucrative.

Oh - I'd like to point out a few things also about pirating that you may or may not have heard of.

Awhile back, one of my friend visited Thailand and bought some games - the quality with which the games were made were just absolutely exquisite (for a lack of better term). It was fully boxed and jewel cased and the CD was labelled and printed just as if its a legal version, and the manual was full colour and beautifully bounded - all of this was just worth $10 Australian dollar (about 6 US dollars - and this is for a brand new game so it's obviously illegal). Now, I've gotten the same game as my friend so I could tell you there was absolutely no visible difference between a legal and an illegal copy - if those Thailand piraters came to Australia, set up a store, and sold them for the standard retail price of 90 or 100 dollars, the chances are people will go in and buy them, thinking they were fully legit - and I'm sure this is happening somewhere... for all I know, some of my games may actually be made by game pirates and I'm simply unaware of it!

The same is also happening in the music industry - a few years back, many Australian retailers were fooled into thinking a whole batch of music CDs they got was the one direct from the publishers. After careful scrutinisation, the only difference they could find is that the illegal music covers (to be placed in the front flap of the jewel case) was a tad (just a tad) lighter shade than the legal copies... By the time they found out, they've already sold a considerable amount of stock.

Given these, I'm more willing to believe that if a criminal gang is really set on making money from the public by pirating music and games, they'd be so good at the job that the public doesn't even know about it. More likely the ones you could spot as being pirated are made by those small-time gangs or one-person pirate in the neighbourhood. It's those extreme quality pirated copies which are probably made by the larger criminal gangs, and those are definitely hard to track and trace...

The criminals gangs ARE set on making large amounts of money with piracy and DO make large amounts of money from it.

Piracy with all media is BIG BUSINESS, and it does not stop at the guy in a cinema with a camcorder - people working in all the respective industries are heavily involved too - prerelease copies mysteriously disappear off the back of trucks or warehouse shelves, review copies get lost and are never seen again, and even the raw files have a habit of being copied and smuggled out of offices - those "exquisite" copies you mention were probably produced using the same artwork files that the final releases would be produced with - the differences are simply in the quality of the CD/DVD, paper, and equipment that is used - Eminem actually rushed through the release of The Eminem Show in a last ditch effort to actually beat the pirate copies onto the streets, because he and his label knew, if you leave it too late, the CD will be out there anyway, thanks to some dude who works with you.

Just recently, a few months prior to the release of Harry Potter 5, some pages of the book managed to find themselves in the parking lot of the printers, and one worker there decided he would steal them and try to sell them to the newspapers - he was of course, arrested - one week before Harry Potter 5 was due on sale, an entire lorry filled with copies of the book was stolen - it was later found, empty!

The reason some people may not know what they are buying is stolen because it looks so like the real thing, may be, because it actually is the real thing, stolen and sold with no profit to the real developers - and the reason pirates strive to make better copies? - so they can sell more to more people in all different areas of the retail market place.

And I have to disagree about John Q and his CD burner not being a problem - this is a very large problem - for example, if people don't know where to buy a pirate game/dvd or whatever, they will almost certainly go buy it for real if they want it - this is not out of some loyalty to the developers or because of some pangs of guilt or fear of the law, it's just, that's the only way they'll get it - now, if one of those guy's buddies comes along and says, hey I've got a copy of so-and-so, do you want to borrow it - that person is going to say yes ok - they'll borrow it, play, may even copy it for themselves - that results then in 1 less real copy sold - multiply that by 10 million people, and multiply that by the 50 dollar price tag of a real game, and hey, the industry has just lost another 500 million dollars - that seems like a big problem - this is my point about people not really caring about piracy and not really understanding that companies can't afford it - some peope even feel resentful because they nave to pay so much and will pay less for a pirate to make a point - other people just don't care one way or the other, the cheaper the better - also, the law isn't really going to care about arresting a guy for making one copy of a game for himself, because they'll simply never know, and also they haven't got the time or resources to be chasing down Mr Smith and Mr Jones for copying 1 game - they have to go after the more organised elements, because it is those elements that are the real problem in a bigger sense - every pirate is a problem to the actual industry, but as far as the law in concerned, it is the criminal gangs that will put that illegal money to use in other areas that are the real problem - the law isn't interested in the industry, they are interested in stopping bigger and badder crimes being fed by game/movie/music piracy - if pointed in the direction of Mr Smith and Mr Jones, they are duty bound to investigate, but doing so off their own backs is way down their list.

The world is a big place - when you add up all those "small insignificant" pirate copies, it all amounts to a lot more than just John Q and his CD burner - and when you add that to the major organised piracy gangs that make use of industry insiders, you just have a bigger problem - then add to that the people who place copies for download on peer to peer file sharing apps like Kazaa, which results in less people buying the real things, you have an even bigger problem - in the end, it doesn't matter whether you buy an illegal copy from an organised gang, from a guy on the street, borrow an illegal copy from your friend etc - whatever stops you from buying a real copy results in loss of sales.

And yet still people walk around, saying the companies can afford it, it's no problem, why should I pay 50 dollars when I can get it for 10? Naivety and ignorance are bliss to some people.

Poor Joe Q. You're saying something is a big problem based on a hypothetical projection. I was simply basing a statement on realistic figures. If 10 million people did it (assuming also that all 10 million would purchase a game otherwise), of course it would be a problem, but that just doesn't happen. Not even close. Of course, if 10 million people traded or re-sold the same game to each other, that would amount to the same loss of income for the developers (and that would be legal).

I'm not defending end user piracy. But it's a drop in the bucket, plain and simple. It's an interesting ethical argument, but let's just be realistic about which issues are the ones threatening the industry.