Okay, I'm being presumptious calling this the official thread, but I'm guessing I am the only person who got this game today, so I'll start the running commentary.

Installed fine, but I had to let it install Direct X 9 since that was required...

Opening cinematic was awesome.

I only played the tutorial so far...couldn't figure out how to cast Magic Missile, the icon seemed to be missing! Otherwise, good introduction to basic interface and combat actions.

You can change the screen resolution and scroll speed, which I did, but I might go back to 800X600 since the text was quite small at 1024X768.

I know this will be a complex combat system, so I'll be reading the 100+ page manual now...*sigh*

I hate reading manuals.

Schwab,
Have fun
Ingie

Well, clearly I need a better graphics card, this game slows down to a crawl in more graphics-intensive areas.
The box states 64MB card is recommended and I only have 32MB...

I formed a typical party just to start exploring:

Dwarf fighter
Human monk
Human cleric
Halfling rogue
Elf sorceror

The attribute score system is interesting, you have a choice of rolling stats or using the "point buy" system. You can roll any number of times until you see numbers you like, then stick them in the slots of your choice (strength, wisdom etc.).
Point buy is more difficult since the more you put in one stat, the more points it takes to raise the stat, so I've been using roll for each character.

More later!

Schwab,

nice well rounded party you have there.

is the point buy system similar to the way it was in neverwiner nights? I think it was after 14 it cost 2 points to raise an attribute.

what size monitor do you have? to get an idea what is small for you what resolution did you use in morrowind or NWN?

Keep those impressions coming!

Zanthia, the point buy system boils down to this:

You are startng with an 8 in every attribute, then:
9-14 is 1 point each, 15-16 is 2 and 17-18 is 3. Or:

Score - Cost:
9 - 1
10 - 2
11 - 3
12 - 4
13 - 5
14 - 6
15 - 8
16 - 10
17 - 13
18 - 16

And you have 25 points to burn.

Didn't seem like enough points to me.

My monitor is flat screen, 14 ". I am sticking with 800X600 res which makes dialogue bigger and the characters are more visible.

I'm running around Hommlet now, there are some quests there, none too interesting, and the dialogue is a bit shallow and anachronistic:

Quest giver NPC: Thank you so much for your kind help!
My rogue: You bet!

"You bet"?

Amazon.com and EB games say the game ships withing 24 hours. Has anyone received their game
yet? I did the dreaded pre-order so I should be
first in line, but it doesn't show that it shipped.

Debra, you haven't got an e.mail confirming shipment yet?
Some people at the Atari forums had gotten confirmation a few days ago.

I don't how many hours I've been playing now, but my party just hit level 3 (whoo hoo!).

This game is unforgiving, if you don't know D&D rules, or don't read the manual you will have a HARD time. I'm still learning about the different skills, feats, spells, and numerous combat actions all while working around game flaws and bugs, but it's still pretty fun.

Let me give an example of how complicated this game is. From the manual:

"TOTAL DEFENSE: You can defend yourself as a standard action, which gives a +4 dodge bonus to your AC for one round. Your AC improves at the start of this action, so it helps you against any attacks of opportunity you incur during the round. You can't combine total defense with fighting defensively or with the benefit of the Combat Expertise feat (since both of those require you to declare an attack or full attack). You can't make attacks of opportunity while using total defense."

And this is just one of the Standard Actions, which is a SUBSET of normal actions. Whew.

schwab,

this sounds like one game reading the manual thoroughly is going to be required.

i don't know a thing about 3.5 rules. the example you gave, i don't even really understand it. don't even bother trying to explain it.

level 3 is pretty good--you've made some very good progress.

I cancelled my order at Amazon.com and went to my local Game Stop and bought the only copy they had.
I thought I was doing something wrong in the tutorial because I couldn't find the magic icon.
Then I came back here and found Schwab was having the same problem. I think they must have left
the magic icon off the radial menu in the tutorial. I got slaughtered by the zombies while trying to figure out how to move and the time limit thing.
I have created my usual two tanks, a cleric, a sorceror and thief party all from scratch. Now,
I'm going back to read the manual.
Combat seems so confusing with these radial menus.
It is beautiful to look at so far and I like the music. I wish the portraits were better;more artsy.

Yea, finally someone else is playing!
Debra, those radial menus are pretty ugly to me, but I learned something useful, if you right click-hold on one of the buttons and drag you can move the radial menu around the screen. This helps you see all the options as they "fan" out.

I never really liked the portraits either, and there is a pretty sorry selection too. I assume at some point someone will figure out a way to download custom portraits.
I love the Icewind Dale portraits, they spoiled me.

By all means, read the manual. I haven't read the whole thing, I've sort of been playing and reading together. I just won a boss fight with a special attack against a spellcaster called "ready vs. spell" which worked beautifully. I'm not having too much trouble with the combat so far, but I'm going real slow and still getting used to it.

Be sure to do as many quests in Hommlet as you can, they can help level your party up for the combat areas. Unfortunately, the quests aren't too well designed and some of them appear to be un-finishable.

Let me know if you get stuck.

this is really strange that the retail version has the magic icon missing in the tutorial yet in the kazaa download the magic icon was there and i was able to cast magic missile. yet i still got slaughtered by the huge group of zombies in the tutorial.

Well, I've been killing my own people right along.
This is the first RPG I've played where you can do
that. The radial menu can cause you to do it if
you're not careful.
I've learned you don't have to use that menu everytime you can just click on the enemy and get the job done.
The scenery is beautiful where I am but the town
is very strung out. I think I've taken on 10 quests so far; give or take a few.
It's hard to come up with money as you can't find it in barrels or on the ground. Some bad guys have some on them. Things are expensive as usual
and charisma really matters at the stores to get the best prices. Prices will vary from character to character in your party when you're shopping.
I wish I had more potients. My cleric only has
one spell for healing. Trying to sleep is perilous most of the time and it only raise your
HP 1 or 2 at the most.
Well, these are my random and scattered thoughts
so far.
I am enjoying myself and having fun learning the
ropes.
What do you think so far Schwab? Where have you
been?

Debra, I was getting tired of running around Hommlet until I noticed that you can hop around the town on the world map, check it out, much faster. You can hop to the north part near the temple, the south part near the inn, or east right near the tower.

The most important skill for buying/selling is "appraise" and my rogue has that skill as well as diplomacy, bluff etc, so she is the spokesperson of the group.

On the subject of healing, do you know about spontaneous casting? If you press SHIFT while in the cleric's radial spell menu, you will see the spells change to all healing spells (different for each level). What I do is memorize all the non-healing spells I want to use (bless, doom, spiritual weapon) and then if I need to, press shift to switch to healing spells and cast. Of course, you lose whatever spell was in that slot. Unless you're an evil cleric, then you would get inflict wounds instead of cure wounds, but I'm assuming your party is good/neutral.

They didn't want to make this game easy at all, your party doesn't completely heal when they rest for 8 hours even if you have a cleric (unlike BG2). If you "rest until healed" your party sleeps for a friggin' week.

Another problem with this game is it doesn't light up doors/chests/loot consistently, so you may miss some stuff. This is a problem with one quest in Hommlet specifically and I had to go to Atari forums to find out what to do...let me know if you get stuck...

Don't worry too much about money, this game is pretty good with the loot once you leave the town and start your killing spree. My party has over $10k gold and we're level 4.

I'm having a blast so far, though some of the fights require the old try/reload/buff/try again to win. We've done the moathouse and we're now in Nulb, a kind of port town not unlike Montaillou in Lionheart.

Thanks for the Shift thing. That will really help.
What can you do for an unconscious party member?
Nothing seems to help and like you say you can
sleep for a week and not heal up plus if you're in the wilderness you just get attacked over and over while trying to heal one member.
Right now, I'm just doing a walkabout. I've got
the quests, but I'm learning the interface.
You're right they made it hard, but I'm not having
as much combat difficulty as I did in Lionheart well.....so far
One problem I'm having is with a swimming mouse if you know what I mean. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does it's most inconvenient.

Oh God, I hate the slow mouse, in some areas (near the Druid's cottage) it slows to a crawl. I just avoid that area if I can. People are complaining about it but I haven't seen any concrete solutions for it. So many people are experiencing it that it must be a game problem, which they really should fix.

If someone's unconscious, you can try using the cleric's heal skill (not spell). The heal skill is located on the radial menu (anvil button)and if your cleric has points in that skill they can try to revive, or "stabilize" an unconscious character.

I must not have enough points in heal yet 'cause
nothing works.
Maybe a patch will be forthcoming for the mouse
if there's lots of people having the problem.
I experienced it in the tower with the poison spider, the Druid area and those Meadows where you
go with the Sage to get the Wizard scrolls. I thought it was maybe my computer, but I'm glad to
know that's not the problem.

Schwab, do you know where I can get the no cd patch for this game? My game is now crashing on
launch and I can't fix it. I went to the Atari
board but I can't find the unofficial patch they
mention that might fix it.

on the atari forum i read something about the mouse scroll and that the setting for 1 and 5 were bugged so if you have your setting on them try changing it and see if that improves it.

You're talking about going in under options in ToEE? I can't even get there anymore it just won't launch period. Someone said something about the SecureRom disk protection which is OK if you don't want people to copy the thing. I just want to play it for crying out loud.
I read on the Atari forum that there is a chance that there will be no patches. I have never heard of such a thing. I am so frustrated. I think if you weren't going to offer support in the form of patches for your crappy programming job you should have told people ahead of time and
saved us all a lot of coin and misery.
I'm almost ready to champion Lionheart cause at least it played.

debra,

another case of copy protection messing with legit owners of the game. i have read that many were having problems with the securerom.


check this thread out. it has what you are looking for.

Thanks Zanthia, I didn't even know where to start looking for this "crack" download.

Hope that helps Debra!

I sincerely hope Troika can convince Atari to license patches, this game seriously needs them.
From what I've seen the designers are good people and would help if they could, but the publisher controls patches so we'll have to wait and see.

There are quest bugs where I am in the game now and it's frustrating when you have done what's needed and can't get the XP!

Could someone tell me what they mean about going deep to find the exe files? I've looked through
all the files in the game and I don't find an exe.
How do I use this crack, Zanthia??? I am so confused.

Back again. I got the crack and opened it into
the ToEE file. It says I don't have a particular
.dll, but the one it's saying I don't have is in the same file folder I downloaded it to. What am
I doing wrong? Do I need to remove some other file that represents the .exe file of ToEE before
I use the crack file?

debra,

he was referring to homeworld 2 not greyhawk. greyhawks exe file is in the root directory. the name is ToEE.exe. Back up this file. I like to have it renamed. call it something like ToEE_orig.exe or anything you want. You need to use winace or winrar to decompress the crack. I am pretty sure winzip will not work. Then copy the crack over and hopefully all you problems will be solved.

I cannot find the ToEE exe file. I've looked at
everything and it's no go. Schwab, do you know
where the .exe file is? You don't have the game
yet do you Zanthia?

Debra,

No I don

Get what to work? I didn't need the crack deal since I'm not having any problem launching the game (knock wood), I was just thankful you were able to find it for Debra.

I've never had to use one of these programs to bypass copy protection, but it angers me that publishers still use these things since it's more than likely that pirates can easily get around them. Only the consumers are hurt, really.

I did find this advice at Atari forums, don't know if it will work for you Debra but it's worth a shot:

"Concerning the game not starting, the nocd crack did not help at all. It was reforce (refresh fix) !!! If I put 800x600 and 1024x768 to 60 Hz, it works. Then I selected 85 Hz in the game menu, and I then i could set both 800x600 and 1024x768 to 85Hz using reforce. Anything more and CTD. I'm not using the nocd crack (which never worked for me). Maybe now with the refresh "fix" (hack) the nocd hack will work."

Oh, also, someone else said they got help when they called Atari tech support (they were at least able to narrow down the cause of the problem, it seems there are different reasons for the no-launch problem).

Here's a link to the Atari Tech support for TOEE, though I didn't go so far to find their contact phone #, check out the online info first.

ATARI SUPPORT TOEE

Thanks Zanthia and Schwab for the info. I couldn't get the Reforce to work because I am using ME as my OS. It won't work with that. Been there done that.
I will look for the .exe the way you said, Zanthia
and see if that will help.
This whole thing is turning legitimate buyers into game hackers and pirates. Go figure!

Thanks Schwab for the Atari tech link. I got the
game to work by going into DXDIAG and increasing
the refresh rate to 75hz and using End It All to
close down everything except the game.
I had to recreate a party again and start all over, but at least it works. Truth be known, I
haven't shut it down yet. We have two computers
that work on the net so my husband can surf without problem. I envision my laptop remaining on for months so I can finish the game because I'm too chicken to turn it off.

Good to hear you found a solution, Debra!
Luckily you didn't get too far in the game so re-starting isn't so painful.

My party is in the big old Temple now and I'm pretty confused, there are quests in there and I'm never sure whether to do them.

Plus the game slows to a crawl during big battles, I might try that "end it all" command myself...

Let me know before you get to the town of Nulb, I encountered a quest bug there that you may be able to get around.

BTW, the lead designer, Tim Cain, is doing an online chat tonight, hopefully he will discuss the possibility of patches..

Okay, I've started over and adjusted my party! I fired my Bard (he really wanted to be a Rogue) and my Sorcerer (absolutely NO help in combat at all). I kept everyone else.

So my party is now:

Human Fighter
Human Fighter
Human Cleric (instead of Halfling Sorcerer)
Elf Rogue (instead of Halfling Bard)
Half-Orc Druid (hey, why not, Druids don't need intelligence).

I already like it better. LOVE Turn Undead.

HOWEVER. Pickpocket/Sleight of Hand is still very bothersome. My Rogue has a great skill level (9 or something) and, while he can get "Success"es, he NEVER seems to pluck any actual loot. Does anyone know what gives?

And can anyone give me a hint as to who can supply the "Full Heal"s necessary for a few quests in the Hamlet of Hommlet?

I do like that the game feels very deberately paced, much more like I imagine a P&P D&D session would go. Battles feel more tactical. I like the turn-based very much indeed.

The graphics are a bit improvement over the grotty look of Arcanum. The gently moving leaves in the trees is nice. And everything has a homey, hand-painted look.

Ray, the game doesn't tell you what you stole, you can check your inventory to see, but if you only got money it's anyone's guess how much unless you knew how much you had beforehand.

I'll give you a hint on the healing, you can get some free in the temple. Look everywhere...

SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


There's a scroll of full heal in the St.Cuthbert's
library if you need it for the sick child of the
woodcutter.

debra, i am glad to hear that you have the game up and running now

schwab, the chat did mention the patch.

hear is an part of it where the patch is mentioned:

[Exitium] [Arcana] Question: If there is to be a patch...when can we expect an acknowledgement of what will and wont' be fixed/changed
[TimCain] We are planning for a patch that will not invalidate save games - rule #1
[[Troika]Steve] I know locally at Troika we've made changes to the codebase and fixed bugs, there was infact a build made after the gold build that Atari chose not to go with, and we continue to work on things when we have time.
[[Troika]Tom] I hope we can make an official (or unofficial) announcement by next week
[[troika]hnguyen] as i've written earlier on the forums, everyone who is helping to report bugs and link savegames really helps A LOT!
[TimCain] Atari has not told us whether or not they want to pay for a patch, so we will have to see what we can do on our own time

Well, I hope Atari pays for a patch since they were the ones rushing the product out the door!

Well, I'm leaving town for three weeks (see my fascinating and utterly self-aggrandizing post in the Mixed Bag forum) and I'm hoping the patch will be ready upon my return!!

I haven't been having too many problems but if the patch addresses game performance and fixes certain quests then the game will be much more fun.

My party just hit level 7 and can make it through most of the combat (with a little luck) but there really are a variety of enemies and sometimes I need to re-load and try a different strategy.

Debra, how far are you now?

My group is at level 3 and we're still in Hommlet.
I'm really taking my time and doing the side quests. We cleaned out the bandits and the Master.
Why don't they let you know what that 1+ breastplate does or the magic ring you get or the
cloak of Elvenkind? They don't need to be identified again do they?
Schwab, have you finished Nulb? I found out I was
not ready for Trolls

Debra, that identify issue is a pain and they should have done it differently. Supposedly they were sticking so close to the D&D rules that they forgot that folks playing a CRPG don't have a dungeon master to explain what magic items do.
You could also look these items up in the D&D books, or download a PDF file but I think they should have just put full descriptions in the game.

I've just been going by what little description they give (ring of invisibility, ring of protection +1 are pretty obvious), but some items are a mystery (rope of entanglement, fungus figurine???).

I did as much in Nulb as I could, except for 2 broken quests. Trolls are a real pain since they can only be beaten into unconsciousness, then you have to shower acid or fire to kill them (one fire arrow won't do it a la Icewind Dale).
I avoid trolls if I can.

Tell me about the work camp quest. I can't find
anyone that talks about the shipment records.
I've tried different times of day but the only one
there is the cook (?)

Try going east of the tower during the day, that's where the work area is. There is a man there with some secrets to share...

There is only one man there and he keeps telling
me he's busy. Tell me more.....

OK I finally found the right guy and did the quests for the work camp.
How do you get wizards to memorize spells? I put spells in his inventory and use read and he does
the incantation, but I don't see them in his choice of spells area in the inventory.

Debra, I don't have a wizard so I don't know from experience, but someone on the Atari forums explained it this way:

"If I have an Arcane wizard scroll, I have my Wizard cast Read Magic on the scroll (not Identify). This tells you what the scroll is. Once it is identified, if it is arcane, you should have a Copy Scroll option in the Radial Menu somewhere. If you dont find it, look again. It may not be where you expect it. Anyway, once you select "Copy Scroll" a Spellcraft check is made and if you succeed, you've added the spell to your spellbook. If you fail, you wont be able to successfully try to scribe scroll again until your spellcraft skill increases by at least 1 ... which will be the next time you level up. This works both for PCs and NPCs. My party has Spugnoir as my only Wizard and he gets all the arcane scrolls. I make him read magic on them and Copy them.

This implies that for a Wizard, Read Magic (Spell) and Spellcraft (Skill) are vital."

Hope that helps.

UPDATE:
According to Adrenaline Vault, Atari has acknowledged that a patch is definitely being worked on, so I am going to stop playing until they release it. I'm sick of having to work around the bugs and the slow game performance.

I'm re-playing Anachronox now...

that is very good news that a patch is being worked on.

Schwab, it is too bad that the bugs are causing you such problems that you have to wait until the patch is released to continue playing. Hopefully the wait won't be too long.

I've quit playing too. I hope the patch will make this game more enjoyable. Some bug is making
me lose 100 GP everytime I cast an identify spell
that my mage has in his spellbook. It's like he's
a merchant instead of my mage. I have created 3
parties and started over 3 times because of game
issues. Enough already!
I received Once Upon a Knight and decided I would
play it while I waited for the patch. It won't even launch. Thanks Atari for another learn to
be a computer geek in your spare time course!

Debra, while the game does have a ton of bugs the identity "bug" you desribed is not one of them. that is a feature of the game, one many hope is changed in the patch. it is actually taken directly from the P&P game.

You're kidding?? Is this part of the new 3.5 rules?
I have never played one that did this. <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/woozy.gif" />
Why would you want the identify spell then. I take it so I can use it out in the field and hopefully upgrade weapons or armor. This game needs everything identified and then you still don't know what it does. Even somethings that appeared to be identified already really weren't.
It is confusing.

debra,

go to the official forum and do a search for identify. limit it to title searches and several things will come up, otherwise you will get a ton of matches.

Identify spell bug is one you may want to take a look at.

I looked at that thread and I have to agree with that person who suggested that the overly faithful use of D&D rules may not be best for a CRPG, especially when casual RPG gamers (myself included) are faced with things like the "real" Identify spell.

I think rules like this mean more when you're playing a tabletop game that lasts a lot longer and where identifying a potion is a major event.
In a computer RPG, it should just be more convenient since things happen a lot quicker.

I agree it was a mistake to stick so closely to the rules in this case.

more news on the patch. the patch is now officially being worked on. there was an announcement by atari today:

LOS ANGELES

I guess I have just been used to the BG, Icewind Dale, etc. version of the identify spell. Well,
I have started a third party and we are up to level 5. I botched a Nulb quest so I didn't get to kill the gar and asked Otis
to join, but he's encumbered and won't share a thing. He may have to go back home.
I wait with baited breath for the patch. I hope it won't corrupt our saves or that we have to start over before using it.

Debra, that encumbrance thing was clearly an oversight in the design, many people have complained about it and I think the unofficial, fan-created patch fixes it, but I'm sure they'll adjust it in the official patch as well.

I admire your persistance and willingness to start over. I was lucky with my first party, they hit level 8 fairly easily, but I've stopped playing for now.

Once you get into the ToEE can you leave it again?
Also, is there any better level to be when you
enter it?

You can leave the Temple at anytime, you aren't trapped. However, you have to find the exits, which are in different places for each level.

I think I had just hit level 5 when starting the temple on the Earth level. I did quests for the various temple leaders to get more XP.

To use the Craft Wonderous Item skill do you have
to have a plain cloak or necklace, etc in your inventory so they can make the item from it or is
it just out of the blue? Also, is it better to get the Craft Armor spell than this one?

Debra, I didn't bother with any of the "craft whatever" feats since the manual description was so complex and the cost so high.

You might want to do a search at the Atari forums, they have (finally) split the TOEE forums up so searching should be a little easier.

For some reason I haven't bothered to read the manual on this one. I guess I should do that instead of picking your brain, but.......
So far I've made a couple of cloaks and some bracers 3+ (of armour I think). Money is no object I don't know what I'm doing though.

Is anyone else having this happen to them? I have
Elmo and Rufus in my party and when we go to sell
items they just give the merchant some of the inventory items we have and then I have to buy them back.

Debra, they coded it so NPC's in your party sell their own loot, so whatever they are carrying they will attempt to sell when you are conducting business with a merchant.

That's how I understand it, I never have Elmo hold anything so I don't lose anything.

That's weird. You create a charismatic character
with high appraise skills to sell for everyone
and these NPC's are selling important items that
you don't want sold.
BTW, are those fire, earth, air and water robes
important?

I think wearing the robes help you avoid fights in their respective temples, but I found that the temple leaders talk nice and give you quests even if you're not wearing them.

I eventually ditched them since they were kinda heavy to carry around. You eventually end up fighting most everyone anyway.

Yeah, that's my thing - they're too heavy. I'm
now finding the monsters spawning in the walls thing. Lots to fix with the patch. I tried the
Circle of 8 fan fix, but it didn't change anything
for me. My NPC's still won't share items except money and my Bracers of Armor 3+ still don't give
me the upgrade to my AC. But, I just keep plugging along. I'm sure I'll try to replay it after the patch to get my money's worth.
I think I have more fun creating parties than playing at this point.

Well, I've made it to level 2 in the Temple. I'm
working on strategy for the fire salamanders and
the fire temple guard. I think I need one more level up so my casters will have some better buffs
to offer the rest of my crew.
Where are you Schwab? Are you still on hold? My
mouse is still swimming, but I'm slowly pressing
on.

Yeah, I've still got it on hold, I'm playing Might & Magic instead and waiting for Knights of the Old Republic and Simpsons Hit 'n Run.

I remember that hall with the fire salamanders, it was very, very hard. I had my strongest fighter taking most of the heat (literally) and had the cleric nearby healing him. Elmo helped out by killing the lesser lizards that showed up behind the party. Long fight, plus the game slowed down significantly so it seemed to go on forever.