Last night my husband went online to update our Norton antivirus software subscription, which was about to expire. When he tried to update Norton, he received an update message from WinAntivirus 2004, which proceeded to delete the Norton antivirus software and then install WinAntivirus 2004 software. My husband used a credit card to pay for the WinAntivirus 2004.

I've gone on the web, and can't even find a web site for WinAntivirus 2004. When I google Norton Antivirus, I get an ad for WinAntivirus!

The only mention of this software I can find is ads. It's not in any of the comparison charts for antivirus software. I finally got to Symantec, which I THINK is the same thing as Norton, and WinAntivirus is not listed as one of their products.

Have we just given out our credit card number to a fly-by-night outfit?

My husband ran a virus check last night using this new software, and it detected a trojan horse, which it did not fully identify and couldn't fully delete. Files it could not delete were vm.installer and vm.exe under c:\x.cab folder.

Any advice?

The first thing I did after reading your message was to do several searches for WinAntiVirus 2004. The first thing that game up was ONE link. I clicked on that link and immediately was taken to a "login" screen and the questions/answers to FAQ. I have never seen this website before, and therefore did not proceed. Although it looks "official" and very similar to Symantec (which does make Norton), I'd highly recommend that your husband call your credit card company and ask if there have been any "unusual" Internet credit card charges. Ask that your credit card company phone you or your husband as soon as or if any suspicious Internet charges are trying to be posted to your account.

Although there ARE many free downloadable anti-virus protection software companies available, I prefer to use Norton, myself. I've tried several of the freebies, but there are too many other things running in the background most times, and that makes me uncomfortable. I've been scammed before by something on the Internet, and wound up having to have a new credit card because of Internet fraud.

I'm not implying that you and your husband have been scammed, just suggesting that you call your credit card company and have them verify the authenticity of the winantivirus software he paid for, and any other purchases in the next few days over the Internet.

Thanks Linda!

I did finally find their web site. There isn't a whole lot there. When I clicked on the link to their product descriptions, it said it was taking me to a secure area, which seemed a little strange just for seeing product descriptions.

Will call the credit card company.

I got through on the phone to Symantec Customer Service. Yes, it appears that I have been scammed. Can't say that Symantec is particularly worried about it. Weird.

I use Norton Antivirus, and I appreciate your warning us about this other company hijacking Norton's links.

Hey Katsmom. I guess this could be a warning to others, couldn't it? I've changed the topic title on this post to be more specific and to include Norton to make it a more precise warning.

Becky,
Thanks for posting this and I'm so sorry this has happened to Norton(of all things)and to you all.

Ingie

Yes that is weird.
If Norton is that unconcerned about the security of their links, I wouldn't be particularly worried about renewing with Norton. There are other antivirus companies out there.

Not only others but, others that are better as well. My 2 cents.

Rusty

Strange, isn't it?

As an analogy -- Cartier is rightfully concerned about cheap knock-offs of their watches. Well, what if somebody installed an entrance to the Cartier store that channeled people past the real store and sold fakes at the same price as the real thing? People would never even know they were buying a fake.

Wouldn't Cartier be concerned?

I just got back from CompUSA, where I was told that Norton is far superior to any other antivirus software out there, so I bought Norton again. Maybe Norton/Symantec is so powerful that they don't need to worry about a 2-bit operation stealing some of their customers. Especially if their customers just go out and buy Norton again.

Sheesh!!!

According to the fellow at CompUSA, WinAntivirus is a FREE virus program that somebody has packaged and is selling to unsuspecting customers on the web. He says that WinAntivirus must have somehow used spyware to redirect my computer to their site, fooling my husband into thinking it was Norton. And this while I was using Spybot to control the spyware!

It's just discouraging. I feel like there are threats out there online in a way I never did before. I don't feel like downloading anything ever again.

So your computer's browser got hijacked?
You'd better find out if it's been hijacked to do other things as well.

Which browser do you use?

This may be a related event, or just a coincidence, BUT...

I'm suddenly unable to start my Task Scheduler, which includes (only) Norton Anti-virus LiveUpdate. I can start LiveUpdate manually, but it will no longer automatically check for anti-virus updates every 2 hours.

I wasted hours today, trying to find out what's wrong. It tells me I don't have enough 'resources' to start the Task Scheduler service. Well, I closed several (safe) processes and no applications were open -- but I still couldn't get automatic Norton LiveUpdate to enable. I also tried restarting Windows.

I'm wondering if this is related to a recent Windows HotFix, that had to do with Internet Explorer and downloads. (?)

Anyone have any thoughts on THIS one?

Jenny-- I use Internet Explorer.

I asked because I wondered if your browser being "redirected" had anything to do with the security hole the new Windows hotfix (867801) is trying to fix. It seemed to be to do with IE rather than other browsers.

http://www.microsoft.com/security/bulletins/200407_windows.mspx

This is the update Demosthenes had trouble with on one computer. But he said the update worked when he downloaded the entire update before installing (as opposed to installing while being connected to MS).

Katsmom, I don't know if your problem is related to the security hole or not. It does seem suspicious though.

I use Internet Explorer almost exclusively, even though I have the MSN browser available to use. I've given up trying to fix the Task Scheduler for now. I'm just grateful that my computer and OS survived the update process!

I'm really losing faith in Microsoft lately. MSN told me to seek online help elsewhere, with my suddenly 'buggy' and unreliable Lucent modem connections... so I DID, and found an unsigned driver update that FIXED the problem... after which, Microsoft sent me a "Critical" Windows Update -- a 'Microsoft' (signed) Modem Driver update from 2003... which I failed to recognize as the SAME driver I'd been having problems with! So I downloaded the modem driver from WU -- and promptly had to RE-INSTALL the newer, more successful, and unsigned "Agere" modem driver update!

Apparently, Lucent went out of business; and Agere isn't having their driver updates digitally signed.

So to get back on topic -- it seems that Norton Anti-virus is going downhill lately; and I no longer trust "critical" updates that Microsoft tells me to download and install.

Thanks Jenny100 -- I'm checking out the patch (and Demosthenes's experience with it) now.

Becky,

Go to Trend PC-Cillin's site and download housecall & scan your computer. You can also download the free 30 day version.

This anti-virus program is far superior to Norton in my opinion. I've used it for years, after trying Norton, Mcaffee and others. It's the best.

It automatically updates at least once a week & I have never had a virus attack that it did not catch & clean or quarantine, if it didn't clean it.

You should also have a spyware program. I use Pest Patrol & I Hate Spam. They're great programs & well worth the money. Also have automatic updates. I'd be willing to bet that you have a bunch of spyware/adware files on your computer.

Melanie

Actually, Becky, you can download free trials of the Pest Patrol also.

Melanie

Hey Melanie -- thanks!

In addition to Norton, I bought Spy Sweep while at CompUSA. It's running right now, and yes it is finding lots of ad ware.

This new version of Norton found two adware programs that have files that must be manually deleted in the registry. I'll do that later today.

Just curious -- what didn't you like about Norton and McAfee?

I installed the Microsoft Critical Update patch with no problems.

So I now have a new antivirus program, a new firewall and new spyware on the computer. Shields are up. Hope they work.

Hi Becky,

There are several things I didn't like about the big 2 anti-virus programs.

They're not as user friendly. They charge for updates by making you take a subscription & they have let viruses slip by that they could not remove. Your registry that has to be manually changed is just one example of that.

Both PC-Cillin & Pest Patrol remove all traces or quarantine them in almost every case. There is no subscription or charge for updates, including new versions. They give you a year for free & will extend that with a grace period. They also constantly update their products (much more often then the other 2).

I'm glad you got rid of that bug & the adware and hope all goes smoothly now.

Melanie

One other important thing I didn't mention, Becky, is that Trend's customer support is very good! You would never get a reply like you did with Norton.

Melanie

Hmmm. Almost you persuade me to try yet another antivirus program, even after just laying out bucks for Norton.

Manually removing items from the registry is a BIG PAIN, especially since at the moment the computer won't let me back up the registry -- just freezes whenever I try to do it.

I have a message in to Microsoft. I seem to be out of the frying pan and onto the hot stove.

Just a thought, Becky. Have you tried restoring to an earlier point before downloading the anti-virus that caused the problem?

You would have to reinstall any & all new programs you just installed, like Norton & your adware program, but it might bring you to a point before you caught the virus & allow you to back up the registry. I've done that in the past when a program caused havoc on my computer.

Btw, PC-Cillin is also cheaper.

Melanie

Becky, I don't want to make you feel worse - - but I have to warn you about the Webroot SpySweeper program. I have it also, and have NOT been happy with it at all! It misses a LOT of adware/spyware. I've sent the company messages TWICE now about pests I found on my own, that their program didn't catch. I'm paying THEM for this??? I don't plan to renew, when my subscription ends.

BTW -- make sure you click on the button for "Update Program" -- because you get one free program update when you buy it. Then you have to keep checking the "Update Definitions" button when you're online, because the automatic update checker has never worked for me. Their updates are infrequent, and take FOREVER to complete! (on dial-up, anyway)

I found the website for PEST PATROL, and they impressed me with their online (fast!) adware/spyware scanner. THEY found the adware and stubborn registry entries that SpySweeper kept missing, and couldn't seem to get rid of. I haven't downloaded their trial version yet, but I plan to do that. Mjartisian -- can you buy Pest Patrol in local stores, or must you order it from them online?

I still like Norton Anti-virus, though; as well as their SystemWorks utilities. I disliked McAfee AV, and only tried it because I was offered a free trial period.

Katsmom, you have to buy it online. I bought a combo special they had: I Hate Spam & Pest Patrol both for $50 & they automatically update or I can manually update at any time. I'm very pleased with them! Pest Patrol automatically scans every time I boot & cookie patrol grabs all cookies from my email. It also warns me when my computer tries to dial out.

They painlessly remove all spyware/adware/cookies & most spam. Occasionally a spam will sneak through but you can enable learning in the programs & when you mark something as spam, it won't get through again.

I recommend them both highly.

Melanie

Edited:
Pest Patrol is now $20!

Melanie -- I haven't thought about restoring yet, though that may be the next logical step.

I've been through two levels of Microsoft tech support in the last two days, and whatever it is that is happening to my computer is flummoxing them. I wish they could solve the problem, though for some odd reason I feel kind of special for being so very difficult. Strange, isn't it?

My computer now won't go into Safe Mode. All I get is lines and lines of what looks like driver files. Yes, I'm something special at the moment.

Oddly, other than being a bit slower than usual, my computer is functioning just fine. I just REALLY want to get rid of those pesky adware programs nestled in the registry.

BTW, the Microsoft tech admits that the Adware "pirates" (my term) have gotten way out ahead of the Spy Sweepers or SpyBots of this world in terms of sophistication and deviousness. Of course, he didn't admit that the pirates are way out ahead of Microsoft techs in deviousness.

Yeah, Katsmom the microsoft tech ignored my brand new SpySweeper and had me install another spyware program from CNET. I guess he wasn't terribly impressed with SpySweeper either (though he wouldn't say anything negative about it).

It's good to use several spy catcher programs, and one will catch what the other doesn't.

One thing about Pest Patrol, which I have and love, is that the free version will find the spyware but you have to manually delete it. If you have a paid subscription (like I do) Pest Patrol will take care of deleting them for you. You should know, though, that after a year you do have to pay $19 for Pest Patrol's renewal.

I also use Ad-Aware (throught lavasoftusa.com) which is really good. Do not do a search on the name Ad-Aware because there is another company out there with a different product that has a url adaware.com, but is not the same thing. lavasoftusa is the correct vendor for Ad-aware. This is also a paid subscription.

Than, I have x-cleaner (www.xbblock.com) which is quite good (paid subscription).

I use Webroot Spysweeper, no problem so far. Also use Spybot, which is free.

I'm using Zonealarm as a firewall, and have Norton Utilities, which includes Norton Antivirus.

Each of these products seem to catch what the other's don't, so it's good to have a few. I run all of my stuff daily, so my computer is pretty clean. It's amazing how much spyware and adware is out there. You can't be too careful.

Jean

Well, my beloved computer has just cut itself off from the net (I'm typing this on my older computer). Interestingly, it will run checkdisk/scandisk now that the internet is no longer hooked up. As soon as the scandisk is finished, I'm trying to reboot in Safe Mode and see if that will work now.

Odd and odderer.

Jean -- after being forced to run several adware-cleaning programs, plus a virus checker every day or so, then backing up the registry and going in to clean it up whenever adware loads something there -- is it even worth it to surf the web?

I've told my family to only go to their favorite, legitimate sites and not to download anything at all, not from anywhere. School isn't in session now, but how will these new adware and virus dangers effect the ability to do research online? I'm not going to want them following just any old link Google tosses up.

We've all become dependent on the web, but if it

Hi Becky:

I'm the only one who uses my computer, so it's probably a lot easier for me than for others who have families to share.

One thing I do is schedule my virus check to automatically run at 10:30 pm when I'm usually in bed, and Spysweeper to automatically run at 2:00 am. That way at least those two get done. PestPatrol, XBlock and AdAware get run when I'm doing dishes or something else that I'm away from the computer. Of course, with kids you have a harder time.

So far I've been lucky and only had to manually go into my registry a couple of times. PestPatrol and XBlock are pretty good about automatically cleaning stuff. Now that I've said that, I've probably jinxed things and my computer will crash. We all know computers have minds of their own. They're kind of like cars -- never let a car know you have extra money or it will break down!

I sure hope you get your problem figured out soon. There's nothing worse than not being able to get online, or play a game.

Jean

Becky,

I think you should try restoring to an earlier time. You won't lose your files, just any new programs.

I use Spybot on my work computer & it doesn't get rid of some of the registry entries. I haven't had any trouble with Pest Patrol getting rid of them. Yes, it is true that you have to renew every year, but it's certainly worth it.

Jean, do your other programs catch things that Pest Patrol doesn't? I never heard of AdAware. I'll have to check it out.

Melanie

Hi Melanie:

I've had both Ad-Aware and SpySweeper find things that PestPatrol doesn't. I've read somewhere that the programs scan for different things, so that's why one will pick up what the other doesn't. XCleaner also finds stuff.

Don't forget if you look into Ad-Aware go to lavasoftusa.com. If you just do a search for Ad-Aware it will bring up another product is a freebie and not as good. The Ad-Aware you get on lavasoft's website has both free and paid for subscriptions. I always get the paid for ones since they usually include better service and more features.

Jean

Hi Jean,

I checked out Lavasoft's site. It sounds like a good program. Thanks for the info.

I think I'll dl the free version & see how it works & if I like it, buy it. I like the fact that it has plug-ins & different versions also. It seems like a professional program.

It certainly can't hurt to have another layer of protection. Pest Patrol found & deleted 3 pests last night after my surfing!

Melanie

Reading this thread prompted me to run the online Pest Patrol scan, which I hadn't done lately.

I'm INFESTED with adware and spyware again -- 32 nasty items! To manually remove all of these items will take me a LONG time.

NOW I know why my Norton Anti-Virus automatic LiveUpdate isn't working anymore. When I try to start my Task Scheduler, it keeps telling me there aren't enough 'resources' available...

I just did an update an hour ago or so, with my Webroot SpySweeper -- and NOTHING whatsoever, is showing up on it. It's worthless and a waste of money, IMO. I'm trashing it ASAP, and getting Pest Patrol!!!

Here's the link for anyone who wants to REALLY find out what adware and spyware is on your computer (for free)! But as someone mentioned, you have to manually remove the items found by the online scan -- or purchase the product.

http://www.pestscan.com/Scan.asp


It takes a few minutes to load, after you click the link. The scan itself is very fast, though -- and incredibly thorough.

I think that's a good idea, Katsmom.

I couldn't believe that I had 3 of them just from one night of surfing! I was looking for an old quicktime version so hit a lot of free download sites.

When I scanned afterwards, my Pest Patrol alarms went off, blaring!

I nearly hit the ceiling. I forgot that I had the sound up for Jazz & Faust.

PP removed them from the registry with one click.

Melanie

Katsmom, my Norton 2003 live update did the self same thing... But it was before the new XP update was installed.

Tig

Becky, thanks for the heads up on this problem. I renewed my Norton about a month ago and thankfully nothing like this happened, but I am so quick to click sometimes that I may have been caught if it did.

As for all the discussion about adware and spyware - my boyfriend is fanatical about not letting this stuff in, and he has set up our firewall and other stuff so that it's never been a problem. We have cable internet and I have had no trouble with adware or spyware whatsoever. So I do think these spyware-catching programs are good for getting rid of things that might already be lurking on your computer, but there are also ways to keep the stuff out in the first place. Lucky for me he's adamant about it because it means I don't have to do the research myself!

emily

Well... I still can't get my automatic LiveUpdate working (nor my Task Scheduler service). I posted elsewhere about everything I've tried -- but if adware/spyware is responsible for 'not enough resources' -- then it sure is well-hidden. Tigger, you're the second person to tell me they've gone through the same thing with Norton. I am using the 2003 program (updated through LU) -- but my Task Scheduler worked just fine until recently. I already have the most recent LiveUpdate version, so that's not the issue. NOTHING seems to be able to get my Task Scheduler working again.

I can't help believing that it's a combination of a Windows HotFix and something about the LU program.

Meanwhile, I got rid of the adware and spyware that Pest Patrol found -- though the programs involved surprised me! One was 'WeatherBug' -- which has been sitting on my computer for 2 years (uninstalled/unused) and never set off a pest search alarm before. And another involved a speech program in my computer, that I don't ever use. I really started wondering about these alleged adware/spyware items... but I went ahead and removed them anyway.

Webroot (SpySweeper) ignored my unhappy comments (by e-mail), and sent me a free upgrade to their newest version of the program. I installed the new version -- but I'm still unconvinced that this program is worth purchasing. It has lots of 'bells and whistles' that the older version lacked -- but (somehow) fewer DEFINITIONS/FINGERPRINTS than the older version had, also...

PLEASE -- those of you who recommend other adware/spyware cleaner products -- could you post the LINKS for us? Then we don't have to risk picking up MORE garbage, by using an online search engine! ('search' is major source of unwanted adware/spyware)

Hi Katsmom,

I know this is a dumb question, but sometimes we look for complicated problems when the answer is a simple one.

Is it possible that your subscription for updates ran out?

If not, have you tried reinstalling? One of the files may have become corrupted.

Melanie

After I learned that Internet Explorer was full of security holes (and got tired of the constant pop-up ads even with pop-up stopper) we switched to Mozilla Firefox. Not a single pop-up has appeared since then and they'll automatically export your IE settings and bookmarks when you download the browser.

I probably sound like an ad for them, but it's free and we really like it. I went back today to IE for one thing (which turned out to be unnecessary) and immediately got pop-ups. Sheesh! I'll never do THAT again!

If you'd like to look it over, you can find it at: http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

Nelia,

I also won't use IE for that reason. I use Netscape, which is a Mozilla product.

It automatically blocks pop-ups & has a bunch of other features that I really like without the annoying messages from Microsoft constantly.

Melanie

Melanie, my LiveUpdate subscription is current, and I'm still able to use LU manually (by choosing to start it). My problem with the Task Scheduler continues, after trying everything that Symantec suggested to me. I wrote them again.

Thanks for the info. on other browsers. I have the MSN browser, but don't like it; and use IE instead. I wonder if Netscape and Mozilla Firefox would be compatible with MSN? I don't have a problem with pop-ups; just with adware/spyware picked up from search engines like Google and Yahoo and Dogpile.

I just received Consumer Reports (the magazine) for September 2004. They have tested and compared antivirus programs, spamware programs and spyware programs. Results are interesting. Some of the products mentioned here were not included in the tests, but most of them were.

Katsmom, "WeatherBug" isn't spyware or adware, it's a free program that can be set to constantly tell you all about the weather in your town (or anyplace else, for that matter). I have it on my computer, and it has never caused me any problem.
-------------------------------------------------
Ok, I just went to the PestControl site, paid for the download, and ran it. That "WeatherBug" you mentioned, Katsmom, is actually "WeatherCast"--a different program. I know it's not the same, because PP showed WeatherCast on my computer also, I deleted it, and my WeatherBug is still working...

Katsmom, I had the same problem with live updates once with PC-Cillin. I could update manually but not automatically. I uninstalled & reinstalled & it worked.

Becky, Which did they give the highest ratings to?

Melanie

Top rated Anti-Spam: MailFrontier Desktop (Matador)

Top Rated Anti-Virus: Trend Micro PC-cillin 2004

Top-Rated Anti-Spyware: Lavasoft Ad-aware 6 Standard

That's interesting, Becky. Thanks for posting it.

I'm glad to see PC-cillin was rated best. I've thought it was for years.

I see Ad-aware, the one Jean recommended, made the top of the list also. I definitely have to try that one.

I never heard of MailFrontier before.

Btw, how's your computer doing now?

Melanie

Hey Melanie -- well this is odd now. REally odd.

In the midst of the worst of our problems, the computer appeared to completely disconnect itself from the internet. We couldn't get on on either AOL Broadband or Optimum Online Broadband. When this happened, for some reason, we could access the registry for the first time since the trouble began.

We went on and cleaned out most of the stuff we were supposed to. We also stumbled across a file called (as I recall) tcpnut.exe. We had seen an error message regarding tcpnut popping up for months when the computer crashed when we were online. So, on spec and because we're a little crazy, we deleted it even though we could find nothing about it on any of the antivirus sites.

Since then the computer has been running like a charm. Well, as much like a charm as it has ever run. We are back to speeding our way across the net in a way we haven't for months.

Lesson learned? When in doubt, go into your registry and delete away!!!! (Probably a bad lesson to learn.)

If things continue the way they are currently heading, Microsoft will have to make it SO easy to edit the registry that even your mother could do it.

I had a really good PC until about a year ago.
It suddenly crashed. It was slow and I tried to defrag it. It helped a little
I think that the culprit was adware (lots of pop- ups, even WITH a blocker!) and browser hijackers.

I have MacAfee for virus protection thru the AOL small monthly fee, and it scans everything

I also have Ad- Aware6 by Lavasoft. For personal use, it is free. LOVE IT
First time I used it, I found over 200 tracking cookies, and quite a few browser hijack attempts!!!!!! There is also a quarantine button,in case you want to look at what was being downloaded.

Spybot is also good although some people hate it. Make sure that you use the tutorial first. It removes a lot of registries that I didn't even know I had!. ( CASINO? XXX?)
I like it because it has a recovery file. If I remove a registry that affects a program that I downloaded, I just put it back in.
Make sure that you use the tutorial first.
This one is also free.


I believe that these 2 programs got rid of ALOT of problems that I had before.

I use these a couple times a week.
Also I try to delete those temp internet files.
I find that trojans LOVE to sneak into these files!!!!

I'll have to check out the other programs mentioned!

Here are the links. Hope they help

Sorry about the mess Katsmom!
spybot
ad-aware 6

That is strange, Becky! It must have been some kind of hijacker/spyware.

I'm glad you got the mess straightened out.

I just upgraded my anti-virus to PC-cillin Internet Security 2004 & my I Hate Spam. I imagine Pest Patrol will be due soon too.

I installed Ad-Aware's free version on my pc at work but haven't had time to do the tutorial yet. It says my computer is clean but I'm going to run Spybot again & see if it agrees. I like Spybot also, Bisbet.

Melanie

I guess I'm glad I use AVG?? it's free- and fairly reliable-by the way-LOVE AD AWARE-

Hi Jenny. The program identified by Pest Patrol (on my computer) was definitely WeatherBug. Once I removed it, the item on the PP scan went away.

I still have the problem with automatic LiveUpdate (Norton AV) -- and have given up trying to solve it. I just update manually now.

RE: all the great online programs for detecting adware and spyware...

Can you guys/gals provide direct links to download these programs? I looked for some in the past, but was concerned when I was taken to '3rd party' websites to download the programs.

Strange. I tried to find you the Lavasoft link for AdAware, and I ended up at Lavasoftware, which seems to be something entirely different.

Hi

Try here ....

http://www.lavasoft.de/support/download/

Cheers.

Mad

Hey Mad! Thanks, you found it!

Here's the USA site:
www.lavasoftusa.com

Rusty

Hi Becky

That's because I use the programme

Cheers.

Mad

After reading this thread, I got the paid version of Pest Patrol. I've had so many problems I wouldn't know where to begin. Anyway, I also have Spybot. Just before downloading Pest Patrol, I ran Spybot first. It found 12 items on my computer which I then deleted. Okay, I then downloaded Pest Control and ran it. Guess how many items!!! 161 on my computer!!!! That's a big performance difference! I'm SOLD!

**Milee10**

Thank you for the LINK for Ad-Aware! How about one for Spybot, now?

The more I use these programs, the more I have to scratch my head... One minute everything's fine, and the next minute -- 161 invaders!

I recently discovered that my updated Spy Sweeper program was corrupted -- and I'd never have known that, except for it suddenly not working at all. I re-downloaded the updated program; and it immediately found lots of new adware/spyware. I wonder if the creeps are able to corrupt our detector programs?

Katsmom,

Here's the link to Spybot:

http://www.safer-networking.org

Good program. Glad I have it and Pest Patrol.