Vic,

As per to what was stated on flotsam's first post-rules:

3. You cannot recommend a series. If you want to recommend all the Tex Murphy games, that will take 5 seperate recommendations, one for each game.

So your series entries will be deleted unless you edit it now before the count gets done.

A reprieve!
I have to dash to Sydney and need to finish the final lists, so will post when I get back - about 9 more hours!!

Hi all,
Another year, and a new list, the first without our Hall of Fame games.
It was close to the end, and first and second swapped places as I counted, but either would be worthy first choices. The top ten includes some venerable games and some newer offerings, and there is a good balance throughout the list. With sites like GOG, the oldies are no longer hard to get running, so can be expected to live on.
And notably of course, Isabelle doubled its vote
As usual, two lists follow, one numerical, one alphabetical. I have started the numerical list with our Hall of Fame games, and included the Hall of Fame games in the alphabetical list. They are marked **.
I have used full as well as alternate titles where I have known them. I no doubt missed a few. In the numeric least, I have tried to use actual titles, the games on my shelf having the final say (including those that are numbered).
In the alphabetical list, I have taken some liberties with names to get series together where possible. It wasn’t always possible, so on a couple of occasions I have marked a game as a sequel.
I have numbered the series games to assist people with the order in which they were developed. They may not be sequels, just additional games in a series.
It can get confusing - there are a number of Dracula games, some in a series and some not. Ditto some others. Fan games complicate things a little further. Hopefully it is reasonably clear.
A casual game slipped in here and there, and one Dark-ish game, but I let them pass. Votes for Hall of Fame games were not counted.
Thanks to Chief who verified the count, and if errors remain, they are all mine.
And finally, thanks again to everyone that participated. I have a lot of new things to play!!

** AmerZone: The Explorer’s Legacy
** Black Mirror
** Dark Fall: The Journal
** Gabriel Knight: The Beast Within
** Grim Fandango
** The Longest Journey
** Myst/RealMyst
** Riven
** Sanitarium
** Syberia
** Syberia 2
** Timelapse
** Zork Grand Inquisitor
** Zork Nemesis

27 The Lost Crown
25 Still Life (sequel to Post Mortem)
20 Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers
19 Broken Sword: Shadow of the Templars/Circle of Blood
18 Moment of Silence
18 Overclocked: A History of Violence
18 Tex Murphy: Pandora Directive
17 Myst 3: Exile
17 Scratches
16 Dreamfall
16 Gabriel Knight 3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned
16 Runaway: A Road Adventure
14 Broken Sword 2: The Smoking Mirror
14 Secret Files: Tunguska
13 Post Mortem
12 Amber: Journeys Beyond
12 Blackstone Chronicles
12 Keepsake
11 Return to Mysterious Island
11 Sherlock Holmes: The Awakened
11 Sherlock Holmes: Nemesis/vs Arsene Lupin
11 Sherlock Holmes: Sherlock Holmes vs Jack the Ripper
10 Barrow Hill: Curse of the Ancient Circle
10 Black Dahlia
10 Broken Sword: The Sleeping Dragon
10 Dracula: Origin
10 Journey to the Centre of the Earth
10 Monkey Island: The Secret of Monkey Island
10 Mysterious Journey: Schizm
10 Obsidian
10 Rhiannon: Curse of the Four Branches
10 Shivers
9 Agatha Christie: And Then There Were None
9 Culpa Innata
9 The Dig
9 Discworld Noir
9 Echo: Secrets of the Lost Cavern
9 Lighthouse: The Dark Being
9 Machinarium
9 Morpheus
9 Paradise
9 Tex Murphy: Under a Killing Moon
8 The Abbey/Murder in the Abbey
8 Ankh: Reverse the Curse
8 Black Mirror 2
8 Darkness Within: In Pursuit of Loath Nolder
8 Faust: Seven Games of the Soul
8 Riddle of the Sphinx: An Egyptian Adventure
8 Secrets of Da Vinci: The Forbidden Manuscript
8 Secret Files 2: Puritas Cordis
8 Yoomurjak's Ring
7 Carol Reed: Black Circle
7 Dark Fall: Lost Souls
7 Kings Quest 6: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow
7 Last Half of Darkness: Tomb of Zojir
7 Memento Mori
7 Myst: Uru Chronicles
7 The Neverhood
7 Tex Murphy: Overseer
6 Art of Murder 2: Hunt for the Puppeteer
6 Aura: Fate of the Ages
6 The Curse of Monkey Island
6 Day of the Tentacle
6 Feeble Files
6 Myst 4: Revelation
6 Rhem
6 Sentinel: Descendants in Time/Realms of Illusion
6 Voyage/Journey to the Centre of the Moon
5 Alida: The Enigmatic Giant
5 Atlantis 2: Beyond Atlantis
5 Byzantine: The Betrayal
5 Carol Reed: The Colour of Murder
5 Dark Fall: Lights Out
5 Journeyman Project 2: Buried in Time
5 The Last Express
5 Last Half of Darkness: Beyond the Spirit’s Eye
5 Monkey Island 2: Le Chuck’s Revenge
5 Nibiru
5 Perry Rhodan: Myth of the Illochim/ Immortals of Terra
5 Phantasmagoria
5 Runaway 2: The Dream of the Turtle
5 Simon the Sorcerer
5 Sinking Island
5 So Blonde
5 The Whispered World
4 80 Days
4 Agatha Christie: Evil Under the Sun
4 Agatha Christie: Murder on the Orient Express
4 Anacapri: The Dream (sequel to Quiet Weekend in Capri)
4 Discworld
4 Discworld 2: Missing Presumed..?/Mortality Bites
4 Dracula 3: Path of the Dragon
4 Ghost Pirates of Vooju Island
4 Gilbert Goodmate and the Mushroom of Phungoria
4 Jack Keane
4 Kings Quest 7: The Princeless Bride
4 Legend of Kyrandia Book 2: The Hand of Fate
4 Loom
4 Tales of Monkey Island
4 Next Life
4 Nikopol: Secrets of the Immortals
4 Nostrodamus: The Last Prophecy
4 Rhem 2: The Cave
4 Rhem 3: The Secret Library
4 Still Life 2
4 Vampyre Story
4 Titanic: Adventure out of Time
3 A Quiet Weekend in Capri
3 AGON
3 Art of Murder: FBI Confidential
3 Art of Murder 3: Cards of Destiny
3 Aura 2: The Sacred Rings
3 Azreal’s Tear
3 Belief and Betrayal
3 Broken Sword: The Angel of Death/Secrets of the Ark
3 Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon
3 Ceville
3 The Dark Eye
3 The Drawn Painted Tower
3 Egypt 3: The Egyptian Prophecy/The Fate of Ramses
3 Journeyman Project 3: Legacy of Time
3 Kings Quest 4: The Perils of Rosella
3 Kings Quest 8: Mask of Eternity
3 Legend of Kyrandia Book 1: Fables and Fiends
3 Myst 5: End of Ages
3 Nancy Drew: Danger on Deception Island
3 Nancy Drew: Ghost Dogs of Moon Lake
3 Outcry/Sublustrum
3 Runaway 3: A Twist of Fate
3 Sherlock Holmes: Case of the Silver Earring/Secret of the Silver Earring
3 Simon the Sorcerer 2: The Lion, the Wizard and the Wardrobe

2 3 Skulls of the Toltecs, Atlantis 1: The Lost Tales, Atlantis 3: The New World, Bad Mojo/Bad Mojo Redux, Blade Runner, Call of Cthulu: Shadow of the Comet, Carol Reed: Hope Springs Eternal, Carol Reed: Remedy, Casebook, Chronicles of Mystery: The Scorpio Ritual, The Dame Was Loaded, Dark Side of the Moon, Dead Reef, Dracula: Resurrection, Drowned God, Everlight: Of Magic and Power, Isabelle, Jack the Ripper, Kings Quest 5: Absence makes the Heart Go Yonder, Last Half of Darkness: Shadows of the Servants, Laura Bow: The Dagger of Amon Ra, Mysterious Journey 2: Chameleon, Nancy Drew: Curse of Blackmoor Manor, Nancy Drew: Last Train to Blue Moon Canyon, Nightlong: Union City Conspiracy, Reah, Return to Mysterious Island 2: Mina’s Fate, Riddle of Master Liu, Riddle of the Sphinx 2: The Omega Stone, Safecracker 2006, Sam and Max: Season 1, Secrets of Atlantis: The Sacred Legacy, Shivers 2: Harvest of Souls, Simon the Sorcerer 4: Chaos Happens, Tex Murphy: Martian Memorandum, Tony Tough and the Night of the Roasted Moths, Toonstruck, Torin’s Passage, Touche: The Adventures of the Fifth Musketeer, Undercover: Operation Wintersun, Valhalla Classics 6: The Dungeons, Wanted: A Wild Western Adventure Zak McKracken and the Alien Mind Benders

1 A Tale of Two Kingdoms, Ace Attorney: Phoenix Wright, Ace Attorney: Miles Edgeworth, Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman’s Mine, Ark of Time, Armed and Delirious/ Dementia, Bizarre Adventures of Woodruffe and the Schnibble, Blackwell Unbound, Blackwell Convergence, Broken Sword 2.5: The Return of the Templars, Cameron Files: Pharaohs Curse, Carol Reed: Time Stand Still, Carol Reed: East Side Story, Chronicles of Mystery: The Tree of Life, Clandestiny, Conspiracies, Crystal Key 2: The Far Realm/Evany: Key to a Distant Land, CSI: New York, CSI: Hard Evidence, Dark Seed 2, Deathgate, Delaware St John: The Seacliff Tragedy, Destination Treasure Island, Diamonds in the Rough, Dracula: The Last Sanctuary, Dracula Unleashed, Dragonsphere, Duckman, Dust: A Tale of the Wired West, Emerald City Confidential, Enter the Story, The Experiment, Fable, Fairy Tales: Father Frost, Flower Sun Rain, Freddy Pharkas: Frontier Pharmacist, Full Throttle, Ghost in the Sheet, Hohlenwelt-Sage, Die, I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, The Journeyman Project, Kings Quest: Quest for the Crown, Kings Quest 2: Romancing the Stone, Laura Bow: The Colonel’s Bequest, Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin, Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards, Leisure Suit Larry 3: Passionate Patti in Pursuit of the Pulsating Pectorals, Leisure Suit Larry 5: Passionate Patti Does a Little Undercover Work, Lost in Time, The Lost Files of Sherlock Holmes: Case of the Rose Tattoo, Magnetic, Maniac Mansion, Martin Mystere: Operation Dorian Grey/Crime Stories, Mission Critical, Escape from Monkey Island, Mummy: Tomb of the Pharaoh, Nancy Drew: Treasure in the Royal Tower, Nancy Drew: The Secret of Shadow Ranch, Nancy Drew: The White Wolf of Icicle Creek, Nancy Drew: The Phantom of Venice, Nancy Drew 21: Warnings at Waverley Academy, Nick Bounty: Case of the Crabs, Normality, Outcast, Phantasmagoria 2: A Puzzle of Flesh, Physicus, Police Quest: In Pursuit of the Death Angel, Police Quest: Open Season, Portal, Rama, Ripper, Road to India, Salammbo: Battle for Carthage, Sam and Max Hit the Road, Samarost 2, Shadow of Destiny/Shadow of Memories, Shannara, Shivah, The Space Bar, Space Quest 6: The Spinal Frontier, Starship Titanic, Tears of Betrayal, Ugly Prince Duckling, Valhalla Classics 1: The Crypt, Valhalla Classics 5: The Servant’s Hall, The Watchmaker, Wrath of the Gods, Zork: Return to Zork

2 3 Skulls of the Toltecs
4 80 Days

3 A Quiet Weekend in Capri
1 A Tale of Two Kingdoms
8 Abbey, The/Murdey in the Abbey
1 Ace Attorney: Phoenix Wright
1 Ace Attorney: Miles Edgeworth
9 Agatha Christie 1: And Then There Were None
4 Agatha Christie 2: Murder on the Orient Express
4 Agatha Christie 3: Evil Under the Sun
3 AGON (episodic)
1 Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman’s Mine
5 Alida: The Enigmatic Giant
12 Amber: Journeys Beyond
** AmerZone: The Explorer’s Legacy
4 Anacapri: The Dream (sequel to Quiet Weekend in Capri)
8 Ankh 1: Reverse the Curse
1 Ark of Time
1 Armed and Delirious/ Dementia
3 Art of Murder 1: FBI Confidential
6 Art of Murder 2: Hunt for the Puppeteer
3 Art of Murder 3: Cards of Destiny
2 Atlantis 1: The Lost Tales
5 Atlantis 2: Beyond Atlantis
2 Atlantis 3: The New World
6 Aura 1: Fate of the Ages
3 Aura 2: The Sacred Rings
3 Azreal’s Tear

2 Bad Mojo/Bad Mojo Redux
10 Barrow Hill: Curse of the Ancient Circle
3 Belief and Betrayal
1 Bizarre Adventures of Woodruffe and the Schnibble
10 Black Dahlia
** Black Mirror
8 Black Mirror 2
12 Blackstone Chronicles
1 Blackwell 2: Unbound
1 Blackwell 3: Convergence
2 Blade Runner
19 Broken Sword 1: Shadow of the Templars/Circle of Blood
14 Broken Sword 2: The Smoking Mirror
10 Broken Sword 3: The Sleeping Dragon
3 Broken Sword 4: The Angel of Death/Secrets of the Ark
1 Broken Sword 2.5: The Return of the Templars (fan game)
5 Byzantine: The Betrayal

2 Call of Cthulu: Shadow of the Comet
3 Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon
1 Cameron Files: Pharaohs Curse
2 Carol Reed 1: Remedy
2 Carol Reed 2: Hope Springs Eternal
1 Carol Reed 3: Time Stand Still
1 Carol Reed 4: East Side Story
5 Carol Reed 5: The Colour of Murder
7 Carol Reed 6: Black Circle
2 Casebook (episodic)
3 Ceville
2 Chronicles of Mystery 1: The Scorpio Ritual
1 Chronicles of Mystery 2: The Tree of Life
1 Clandestiny
1 Conspiracies
1 Crystal Key 2: The Far Realm/Evany: Key to a Distant Land
1 CSI: New York
1 CSI: Hard Evidence
9 Culpa Innata

2 Dame Was Loaded, The
3 Dark Eye, The
** Dark Fall 1: The Journal
5 Dark Fall 2: Lights Out
7 Dark Fall 3: Lost Souls
8 Darkness Within: In Pursuit of Loath Nolder
1 Dark Seed 2
2 Dark Side of the Moon
6 Day of the Tentacle
2 Dead Reefs
1 Deathgate
1 Delaware St John 3: The Seacliff Tragedy
1 Destination Treasure Island
1 Diamonds in the Rough
9 Dig, The
4 Discworld 1
4 Discworld 2: Missing Presumed..?/Mortality Bites
9 Discworld 3: Noir
10 Dracula: Origin
2 Dracula 1: Resurrection
1 Dracula 2: The Last Sanctuary
4 Dracula 3: Path of the Dragon
1 Dracula Unleashed
1 Dragonsphere
3 Drawn Painted Tower, The
2 Drowned God
1 Duckman
1 Dust: A Tale of the Wired West

9 Echo: Secrets of the Lost Cavern
3 Egypt 3: The Egyptian Prophecy/The Fate of Ramses
1 Emerald City Confidential
1 Enter the Story
2 Everlight: Of Magic and Power
1 Experiment, The

1 Fable
1 Fairy Tales, Father Frost
8 Faust: Seven Games of the Soul
6 Feeble Files
1 Flower Sun Rain
1 Freddy Pharkas: Frontier Pharmacist
1 Full Throttle

20 Gabriel Knight 1: Sins of the Fathers
** Gabriel Knight 2: The Beast Within
16 Gabriel Knight 3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned
1 Ghost in the Sheet
4 Ghost Pirates of Vooju Island
4 Gilbert Goodmate and the Mushroom of Phungoria
** Grim Fandango

1 Hohlenwelt-Sage, Die

1 I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream
1 Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
2 Isabelle

4 Jack Keane
2 Jack the Ripper
10 Journey to the Centre of the Earth
1 Journeyman Project 1
5 Journeyman Project 2: Buried in Time
3 Journeyman Project 3: Legacy of Time

12 Keepsake
1 Kings Quest 1: Quest for the Crown
1 Kings Quest 2: Romancing the Stone
3 Kings Quest 4: The Perils of Rosella
2 Kings Quest 5: Absence makes the Heart Go Yonder
7 Kings Quest 6: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow
4 Kings Quest 7: The Princeless Bride
3 Kings Quest 8: Mask of Eternity

5 Last Express, The
2 Last Half of Darkness 1: Shadows of the Servants
5 Last Half of Darkness 2: Beyond the Spirit’s Eye
7 Last Half of Darkness 3: Tomb of Zojir
1 Laura Bow 1: The Colonel’s Bequest
2 Laura Bow 2: The Dagger of Amon Ra
3 Legend of Kyrandia 1: Fables and Fiends
4 Legend of Kyrandia 2: The Hand of Fate
1 Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin
1 Leisure Suit Larry 1: In the Land of the Lounge Lizards
1 Leisure Suit Larry 3: Passionate Patti in Pursuit of the Pulsating Pectorals
1 Leisure Suit Larry 5: Passionate Patti Does a Little Undercover Work
9 Lighthouse: The Dark Being
** Longest Journey, The
16 Longest Journey 2: Dreamfall
4 Loom
27 Lost Crown, The
1 Lost in Time
1 The Lost Files of Sherlock Holmes: Case of the Rose Tattoo

9 Machinarium
1 Magnetic
1 Maniac Mansion
1 Martin Mystere: Operation Dorian Grey/Crime Stories
7 Memento Mori
1 Mission Critical
18 Moment of Silence
10 Monkey Island 1: The Secret of Monkey Island
5 Monkey Island 2: Le Chuck’s Revenge
6 Monkey Island 3: Curse of Monkey Island
1 Monkey Island 4: Escape from Monkey Island
4 Monkey Island: Tales of Monkey Island (episodic)
9 Morpheus
1 Mummy: Tomb of the Pharaoh
** Myst/RealMyst
** Myst 2: Riven
17 Myst 3: Exile
6 Myst 4: Revelation
3 Myst 5: End of Ages
7 Myst: Uru Chronicles
10 Mysterious Journey 1: Schizm
2 Mysterious Journey 2: Chameleon

1 Nancy Drew 4: Treasure in the Royal Tower
3 Nancy Drew 7: Ghost Dogs of Moon Lake
3 Nancy Drew 9: Danger on Deception Island
1 Nancy Drew 10: The Secret of Shadow Ranch
2 Nancy Drew 11: Curse of Blackmoor Manor
2 Nancy Drew 13: Last Train to Blue Moon Canyon
1 Nancy Drew 16: The White Wolf of Icicle Creek
1 Nancy Drew 18: The Phantom of Venice
1 Nancy Drew 21: Warnings at Waverley Academy
7 Neverhood
4 Next Life
5 Nibiru
1 Nick Bounty: Case of the Crabs
2 Nightlong: Union City Conspiracy
4 Nikopol: Secrets of the Immortals
1 Normality
4 Nostrodamus: The Last Prophecy

10 Obsidian
1 Outcast
3 Outcry/Sublustrum
18 Overclocked: A History of Violence

9 Paradise
5 Perry Rhodan: Myth of the Illochim/ Immortals of Terra
5 Phantasmagoria
1 Phantasmagoria 2: A Puzzle of Flesh
1 Physicus
1 Police Quest 1: In Pursuit of the Death Angel
1 Police Quest 4: Open Season
1 Portal
13 Post Mortem

1 Rama
2 Reah
11 Return to Mysterious Island
2 Return to Mysterious Island 2: Mina’s Fate
6 Rhem 1
4 Rhem 2: The Cave
4 Rhem 3: The Secret Library
10 Rhiannon: Curse of the Four Branches
2 Riddle of Master Liu
8 Riddle of the Sphinx: An Egyptian Adventure
2 Riddle of the Sphinx 2: The Omega Stone
1 Ripper
1 Road to India
16 Runaway 1: A Road Adventure
5 Runaway 2: The Dream of the Turtle
3 Runaway 3: A Twist of Fate

2 Safecracker 2006
1 Salammbo: Battle for Carthage
1 Sam and Max Hit the Road
2 Sam and Max: Season 1 (episodic)
1 Samarost 2
** Sanitarium
17 Scratches
14 Secret Files 1: Tunguska
8 Secret Files 2: Puritas Cordis
2 Secrets of Atlantis: The Sacred Legacy
8 Secrets of Da Vinci: The Forbidden Manuscript
6 Sentinel: Descendants in Time/Realms of Illusion
1 Shadow of Destiny/Shadow of Memories
1 Shannara
3 Sherlock Holmes 2: Case of the Silver Earring/Secret of the Silver Earring
11 Sherlock Holmes 3: The Awakened
11 Sherlock Holmes 4: Nemesis/vs Arsene Lupin
11 Sherlock Holmes 5: Sherlock Holmes vs Jack the Ripper
1 Shivah
10 Shivers 1
2 Shivers 2: Harvest of Souls
5 Simon the Sorcerer 1
3 Simon the Sorcerer 2: The Lion, the Wizard and the Wardrobe
2 Simon the Sorcerer 4: Chaos Happens
5 Sinking Island
5 So Blonde
1 Space Bar, The
1 Space Quest 6: The Spinal Frontier
1 Starship Titanic
25 Still Life 1 (sequel to Post Mortem)
4 Still Life 2
** Syberia 1
** Syberia 2

1 Tears of Betrayal
2 Tex Murphy 2: Martian Memorandum
9 Tex Murphy 3: Under a Killing Moon
18 Tex Murphy 4: Pandora Directive
7 Tex Murphy 5: Overseer
** Timelapse
4 Titanic: Adventure out of Time
2 Tony Tough and the Night of the Roasted Moths
2 Toonstruck
2 Torin’s Passage
2 Touche: The Adventures of the Fifth Musketeer

2 Undercover: Operation Wintersun
1 Ugly Prince Duckling

1 Valhalla Classics 1: The Crypt
1 Valhalla Classics 5: The Servant’s Hall
2 Valhalla Classics 6: The Dungeons
4 Vampyre Story
6 Voyage/Journey to the Centre of the Moon

2 Wanted: A Wild Western Adventure
1 Watchmaker, The
5 Whispered World, The
1 Wrath of the Gods

8 Yoomurjak's Ring

2 Zak McKracken and the Alien Mind Benders
** Zork Grand Inquisitor
** Zork Nemesis
1 Zork: Return to Zork

Thanks to flotsam and Chief for their hard work! The List rules!

Big thanks, flotsam and Chief!

I'm pumped that Still Life is still right up there at the top. And Moment of Silence did really well this year!

What an undertaking !! Well done and thank you !!

to flotsam and Chief for all their hard work in putting the list together for all of us.

Thank you also from me to Flotsam & Chief for your hard work in putting the list together. It was so nice to see so many games that I love but couldn't squeeze into my list making it into some of the higher spots anyway!

Bravo flotsam for adding and writing down these two list. Great job. A lot of work in there.

The LIST is yours.


Chief

Thank you very much.

Thanks flotsam and Chief for all your hard work

Just out of curiosity do you know how may people sent in lists? Thanks

Awesome, Flotsam
---
Glad that there are 18 votes for Overclocked

Anne, 65 members sent a list.

Chief

Thank you very much Chief

Anne

Absolutely unreal! Thanks so VERY much y'all! Have copied and pasted and am going to print to see what I might have missed.

Y'all are da bestest!

Jody

That was a heck of a lot of work! Thank you, Flotsam, for undertaking it and you, too, Chief, for helping verify everything. You guys must be worn out. <g>

Gil.

Its always a pleasure - and great fun

Thanks so much Flotsam & Chief for all your hard work.
hmmm.... and are there going to be any games from this years' list that will be going into the Hall of Fame? :-)

Yay! Loom got 4 votes!

Thanks again, flotsam, for all the time and effort you put into this. Thanks, Chief, for the time you spent verifying the count.

thank you , flotsam and chief !

Thanks muchly, Flotsam and Chief, it seemed to be an effortless task - but I see there were tons of statistics to mould into a readable and understandable format! A labour of love which is very much appreciated, thank you!

Myopia -- a few years ago I volunteered to help verify the counting. I've never volunteered again. Believe me, it's not effortless!

and chocolates for flotsam and Chief