Homer 6: Just a couple of comments. First of all, do you know for a fact that BFG did not beta test the new game manager? And do you think that a limited test of selected users is going to cover any and all possible problems?

Computer users come in all ages and not all of them are cautious or responsible in their usage. It was mentioned that one of the purposes of the new GM is to improve security. I can tell you from experience that many people who download games online are not at all careful or concerned about how or where they "shop" or what possible problems a download may cause. We have a neighbor who calls my husband (a retired IT professional) on a monthly basis because his computer has been compromised. Therefore, not every problem should necessarily be assumed to be the fault of BFG. Frustrated users will be the most vocal. It would be interesting to know exactly how many users are experiencing technical difficulties as a percentage of the whole of the BFG customer base.

Given the overall track record of BFG, I seriously doubt that the new GM was simply thrown together without thought of the overall impact on the site. I would imagine much discussion went on about expected and unexpected problems and how they would be managed. It will all get ironed out in time. Most other high-traffic sites I visit crash on a regular basis. And many busy sites simply shut down whenever they need to upgrade. I think it's pretty darn awesome that BFG can continue to make the site available while working through this upgrade. How many more users would be outraged if BFG shut down while upgrading in order to avoid technical difficulties?

Everyone has their point of view based on their own experience and expectations. And I can respect that. I hope you understand that this is not meant to be any sort of criticism of those who are unhappy. I just think it's s helpful and fair to inject a positive perspective into the discussion. You can count me in the number who are still downloading games from BFG on a daily basis. And admittedly grateful that the new GM is working just fine for me.

I have cancelled my membership with BFG and don't plan to return until the GM is fixed and not just patched. I could not believe that it took almost 30 minutes to downlaod a game compared to a short 3-4 minutes with the old GM. I have purchased games there that I will continue to download but not another dime will I put forth to purchase a game from them.I learned a looong time ago when I was in college taking business mgt classes that #1 rule of business is , The customer is always right, maybe BFG management should consider re visiting that rule.

Let's separate a couple things here. BFG's site availability is only compromised for those for whom the new GM doesn't work. For those for whom it works, the site has not changed. In fact, the site is no different than it was a month ago, pre-GM 3.0. The only difference is the replacement of GM 2.0 with GM 3.0. And the fact that gamers can roll back to GM 2.0 without any issues suggests the problem is purely within GM 3.0.

As for GM 3.0 being thrown together, BFG is not a technology company, it is a technology-dependent marketing company. Right now, their technology is failing to deliver on what their marketing promises.

Like coffee shop chains, BFG relies on habitual buyers; folks who drop in every day to get their fix. Too many down days and it's time to look elsewhere for that fix.

BFG will no doubt keep its loyal customers for whom GM 3.0 is not a problem. The question is what current customers for whom the GM either doesn't work at all or works poorly will do.

I must say Mr. Lipid, that you're comparison to coffee shop patrons is a good one. A local Starbucks opened up a sidewalk window to serve their customers while upgrading their shop rather than closing for the time it would take. And free cookies.

So when does BFG start giving out free cookies to customers who can't get in and can't reach the window?

Sparkle,

I guess my last post wasn't as clear as it should have been.

I wasn't saying BFG didn't beta test their new GM, BFG stated as much in one of the new GM threads, but that it should have been tested longer and by not just in house people but select BFG members. Six months of testing isn't very long when you are about to introduce something like this new GM. If you want to introduce a good product to the market you should test that product a minimum of one year, two if possible.

When you introduce an update as significant as seen in the new GM it should be tested every which way you, and others, can think of. In house people are mostly employees, or family members, so they are going to be loyal to the product. Members of a site may be loyal but you'll get a much more honest evaluation as to a products worth because the company wanting the testing doesn't have any holds over them. Unless they own stock in the company, the end user doesn't really have a vested interest in whatever company it may be.

Yes, I do understand not all computer owners are responsible computer users. And that many problems they encounter are a result of their carelessness.

But the discussion does not center around every problem these people experience, it concerns the problems people are having with the updated GM. And their experiences of once having a working GM that allowed them to download and run their games to something that no longer does.

A few people having this problem could be thought to be the result of problems with their systems. But the sheer number of people having this problem lays the problem directly on the door step of BFG. In this case A + B is not going to equal C.

I agree, this new GM was not put together out of the blue, it had planning and discussion. But that doesn't mean someone at BFG hadn't already decided how the finished product was going to look and work; I've 34 years of experience watching something like this happen on a daily basis.

Why would BFG shut down because of software used on our computers? Does this software run the entire BFG web site? Needing to upgrade user software does not seem a valid reason to shut down an entire web site if that software doesn't control the web site.

No one can fault any web site when they tightening their security. It should be expected, but at what point does tweaking become a detriment? At what point are you going to start hearing from your customers? And are you going to listen to those customers, regardless of your overall plans? Customers drive a business, the business doesn't drive the customer.

Comments about anything are automatically classed as positive or negative, it's the way we've been programmed; and something we may never be rid of. We can't get away from this because it's the accepted norm. But I submit there is neither positive or negative comments, but people expressing opinions that add to the overall discussion of a topic. Offering, from their points of view, insights no one else has expressed or realized existed. Discussions would be rather dull if everyone provided the same insights. And I don't believe computer users are a dull bunch.

Comment lifted from the BFG forums. As Perry Mason might have said, "If it please the court, we submit this statement as indicative of the witness's agitated emotional state."

"BF used to be the best site around, now its pants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Don't known if it will help anybody who's having problems but there's an update for the game manger. When I installed a game last night the manager updated itself first.

I haven't had any problems with the game manager.

Appreciate your comments, Homer. Can you posit whether or not BFG was already dealing with security breaches that was negatively impacting their bottom line and/or the overall security of their site, and therefore made it more urgent to release the new GM and work on any technical problems as they arose? In other words, taking the more acceptable risk of losing some customers over the risk of opening themselves up to hackers? I don't know. Just wondering if you have an opinion about this scenario.

And to Mr. Lipid: Further in the area of human nature and how businesses fare when they decide to make changes: Our local McD's recently underwent renovations - likely mandated by corporate. There had been several groups of people who were in the habit of gathering for breakfast on a daily basis. In the interest of making the store more "hip", the larger tables were removed to make room for small tables in order to facilitate wi-fy access. The "regulars" were incensed - and I can't say I blame them. In protest, they moved their morning get-togethers to the Burger King across the street. Now, the Burger King didn't get even a small fraction of the business that the McD's enjoyed. On the plus side, you never had to wait in line. But the product and the service was inferior. Eventually, the morning "regulars" moved their business back to McD's - where both the food and the coffee were superior, (albeit that it was necessary to spread themselves out a bit). The End.

Sparkle,

Let's take a closer look at product and service. In most cases, the games available (product) for download (service) are identical. Amazon and BFG offer much the same catalog of games. Even the prices are the same.

In some cases, Amazon's prices are lower. Twisted Lands Shadow Town is $3.49 on Amazon compared to $6.99 for BFG Game Club members. And there is no club or monthly fee for Amazon.

Does Amazon mail out a plush mascot? No.

Does Amazon require a massive Game Manager? No.

While BFG has some original games, even those are being marketed in other places. (Amazon expects to offer 78 of them.)

So what, exactly, differentiates BFG from other portals?

What would make folks want to return to BFG?

I'm sincerely curious about this. What is the attraction of BFG versus the competition? What makes BFG the Mac & Don's Supper Club of gaming portals and everything else the Burger King?

Mr. Lipid: I've never downloaded games from Amazon. How many casual PC games of the sort that BFG offers are available on Amazon - total? Do they offer free demos? Does Amazon have something akin to the punch card? How many of the games that Amazon offers are in the range of $6.99-$13.99? A single example of a lower price doesn't make the case, since prices tend to fluctuate on Amazon. For that matter, BFG does have the $2.99 deals. Does Amazon offer periodic sales of any and all of their games at a single, low price of $4.99? And what can you tell me about the security of Amazon downloads vs. BFG? Does Amazon provide a forum where one can swap tips and/or find a walkthrough? I know that walkthroughs can be found in many places. But it's nice to be able to go right through the GM to find them. ETA: Live Chat and Tech Support are also easy to access through BFG site.

As far as the Game Club membership, I personally don't consider that an extra cost since I buy more than one game/month. For me, it boils down to being satisfied with BFG overall. I don't see that shopping around on Amazon is worth the trouble. In the long run, I probably come out ahead or at least even as regards how much I spend. I do check Amazon first when I want to buy an adventure game DVD though since I'm usually looking for what's new.

I'm glad that those who are having problems have options. It's hard to quit once you've become addicted. Now if Wendy's would just bring back the Frostychino, all would be well in my little world.

Perhaps MrLipid, it's the "Punch Card" incentive system with the free game and an occasional $4.99 deal on any game except CE?

Not sure if the other game websites offer that, but would be interested to know.

Also, it's seems like a mute point to hash over the BFG problems here and not at their website where they can see and respond. To bad, these efforts are wasted here and not where they should be at BFG.

Good point.

Big Fish will delete references to alternative game sites like SpinTop or AWEM. And they apparently also won't allow their members to post links to an installer for the previous game manager. That's why their Game Manager forum thread is so full of requests for PM's for this information. So there is good reason for people to discuss the problem on other game forum sites like this one.

No apparently about it. Any links to GM 2.0 disappear quickly, replaced with "[removed by moderator]". I should know. I've PMed both the process by which one removes GM 3.0 and the link that leads to GM 2.0 many times.

Wouldn't it cause even more problems for members to be uninstalling the new GM and trying to reinstall the older version in its stead? If BFG is trying to make the new GM work, I'd think having people trying to use the old one would only add to the trouble.

Let's see if there are answers to some of these questions.



2005, yes, no, most.



Not sure, about the same, yes.



Agreed. And for those for whom BFG has locked its store door with GM 3.0, Amazon is one of many attractive alternatives, including Steam and Alawar.

There is no exact match to BFG. However, for those unable to access BFG (or the games they bought and downloaded from there), the alternatives look pretty good.

Not at all. Here's the issue. You can't download and activate games with anything but 3.0. Once the games are activated, 2.0 works much better.

And for those for whom 3.0 doesn't work at all, uninstalling it and replacing it with 2.0 at least lets them access the games they already have.

Since BFG, or any web site, might not come right out and tell if hackers have attacked their sight, no, I can't say I've read anything on the BFG forum dealing with this issue. BFG did list tightened security as one reason GM was updated, so possibly they were encountering problems.

Tighten security by releasing a program that caused problems for many, and then work out the bugs? No, this program isn't the one running their web site so it should have been better before it was released.

Customer loss for any business is not an acceptable risk, because you may never get those customers back and lose more along the way. You lose too many customers and you lose your business. As I said in a previous post, customers drive a business, businesses don't drive customers.

Thank you Homer and Mr. L. for taking the time to answer my questions.

As far as risking loss of business, any change a business makes is going to bother some customers in some way. I remember many people saying they were going to quit shopping at one of our local grocery chains because the chain had decided to revamp their stores and moved everything around. I haven't noticed that these changes caused a long term loss of business, despite the initial angst. A successful business is usually able to overcome the negative in the long run. Otherwise they wouldn't have been successful in the first place. I just don't see this GM issue as being the death of BFG as some seem to suggest.

It's been a pleasure discussing this with everyone. Now, back to the gaming.

You're welcome.

It saddens me to see all the upset that the new GM has caused. BigFish has always been my one safe haven to download from and I am not ready to give them up, but I hate to see so many unhappy posters. I hope that a happy medium will be found amd everyone can be ready to discuss the games again and not just the download.

I appreciate that everyone is voicing their opinions in an adult manner here though.

Ana

What? You want us to start acting like the kids we feel like on the inside?

You can come join me in the naughty corner if you want to regress to your childhood Homer.

I just find it refreshing to read thought out comments and opinions.

Ana