Mad, you can feedback as much as you'd like - did you carefully read my post above?! I only wondered why is it that almost every time someone disagrees, there's always a post saying "well, that's only your opinion!". I just said that's trivial, and that I obviously realize that what I write is my opinion.

Don't be mystified, just read, and don't jump to conclusions.

Cheers!

Tomer

Tomer -- this form of communication we use is difficult in that we can't see other people's faces to read clues as to how they are feeling when they are communicating. This sometimes leads to people getting upset when something they say is contradicted or someone disagrees with them.

As we try hard at GameBoomers to stay "kind and friendly" as we communicate, it's not wrong to reiterate that something is just your opinion. It's a bit like saying "excuse me" or perhaps "with all due respect."

Asking someone if they have carefully read your post can be interpreted as asking them if they are careless and haphazard or perhaps not capable of understanding what you just said. Would you want someone to ask this question of you?

Becky, if you don't want me to post in these forums, I won't!

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Now if that was my reaction to what you just wrote, how would you respond? :-)

I know it's not "wrong" to post what Mad wrote (that it's my opinion etc...), but I just felt a need to question the reason for posting it. I re-read my original post, regarding the Sidney puzzles. I tried to explain my opinions, and I did so without any aggresions or hard feelings. I even bothered to remark (though theoratically it's not nessecary) that it's only my take and my opinion...
And still, I get a reply saying "Well, that's only your opinion". That's why I had an urge to question the relavence of Mad's post. However, I also realized I don't want to make this whole discussion surround this particular "drama", so I just wrote a few lines, and got back to my take on the game.
It seems I have failed It's amazing how these little things grow on threads!

Anyway, I wasn't trying to hurt anybody of course, if I did so, accept my appology.

Tomer.

Sometimes posts which were made innocently acquire a life of their own. I think everyone has had their say now.

Let's get back to the "regularly scheduled" topic--GK3

Nice topic I love GK3, perhaps because it was the second adventure game I ever played and the story really sucked me in. I've always had an interest in the Templars and had done some research on them for my master's thesis, stumbling across Baigent/Leigh/Lincoln as well and reading part of the book. So I was somewhat familiar with their theories when I started to play GK3. It just blew me away and was a real challenge; I, too, enjoyed the Sidney puzzles although they were pretty difficult for an adventure newbie, and I admit that I couldn't solve all parts without resorting to a walkthrough. The last puzzle (if you can call it a puzzle) was somewhat annoying because it took me a while to figure out where to stand in order to finish off that demon but it worked alright. I can understand, though, that the puzzles were not to everybody's liking but I found them intruiging - basically because I lacked adventuring experience and had only played Broken Sword before I just didn't have the chance to compare the puzzles in GK3 with those in its predecessors.

GK3 still is my favourite game although since then I've played lots of other adventure games. Only the prequels came close to dethroning GK3; Beast Within runs a very, very close second in my personal list of all-time favourites

As for the posting containing the spoiler: You gotta be kidding Now that would make an interesting twist for GK4... but can you imagine

Oooh, the possibilities...

Jehane, this is another one of those games that I have, but have not had time to play yet. However, they receive accolades all the time so I will play them one day.

I wonder how your feelings would change if you had played this as your 40th adventure game?

Wow, looney, don't you know all GK's are a must?

I can't imagiane the adventure genre without GK and Myst! These games are, to me, the very axis of two different streams that belong to our beloved genre! Oh, to get a game to your hands in an equal level of depth and beauty as in these games.... I long for it!

Tomer, does that mean I shouldn't tell you I haven't played Myst either

I have played MOUL and UU though. I only started gaming a couple of years back. I have an enormous stack of "to be played" and don't you know, they keep making new games and I want to play those too

Looney, didn't Granny told you you have to know the classics first? :-) What child didn't begin his childhood with Little Red Riding Hood?

Save your progress now in all of your games, and start playing the classics!

Undoubtedly good advice! I did play TLJ a few months back so I'm not completely without exposure to the classics.

Good point. It's been a while since I played GK3, mainly because there are so many other games that demand my attention Like you, I've only started gaming a few years ago and have lots of games to play. There are still some classics that I haven't yet gotten my hands on, mostly Lucas Arts games. But I wonder how GK3 will look and feel to me when I finally manage to replay it So far, I've played it three times and loved it. But that was before I had played games like The Longest Journey, Keepsake, Black Mirror

As for Myst: While I do agree that it is a classic and that it lifted the genre to new levels, I must also admit that I absolutely hate Myst. I tried several times to play the original game but failed. The puzzles are just too over-the-top for me but I think I could deal with that if the game had a better story. The story basically consists of That's just not enough to keep me going, though there are fascinating worlds to explore. But to me, Myst is a game that I cannot play without a walkthrough because the puzzles are so difficult and I just don't have the patience to figure them out on my own even though I enjoy a hard puzzle once in a while - but not throughout an entire game.
Playing with a walkthrough, however, is not what I consider good gaming; it's not enjoyable. So I finally gave up on Myst when I reached the third world and had to connect some pipes in a swamp (I think; didn't pay any more attention to the puzzle there because I had already decided that I would not finish the game). That really did it. That and I don't know how many times I had to try before that one finally worked. And I knew I had to do it one more time after returning from that world. That was about the point where I decided that I didn't want to finish this game and that I hated it Of course, there are lots of people who love Myst so don't let yourself be influenced by my opinion only - you might love it as well, so give it a try

That is adventure gaming in a nutshell, and great advice.

Well, it's well known Myst is either very much loved, or very much hated
The story is very, very complex and intricate, if you have the patience to discover it.
Also, the other mysts - especially 3 and 4 - are much more friendly. They are gorgeous and their "plot" is more thick and clear. However, the puzzles remain complex.
The thing is, there's almost not a single Myst puzzle which I can call illogical. More than that - some of the Myst puzzles are so brilliant in my eyes... they are integrated so well within the story and the world they are inhabited in...

But yeah, if you really hated Myst 1, I guess you might not enjoy the others
I know my life would've been completely different without that seires!

Myst was one of the first AGs I bought (on PS1 & before PC walkthroughs - for me anyway) I started it quite a few times, couldn't get my head round it so put it aside for a few years. I eventually, after being able to get a walkthrough, went ahead & played it from beginning to end - it wasn't the most enjoyable way of playing the game as I had to refer to the walkthrough frequently but I appreciated all the wonderful environments & the basic story-line. It's a game I'm glad I experienced, not really 'my scene' but I did buy Myst 3 which one day I will try & finish. If maybe not for for me, I can see why so many people do love these games.

GK is such a fantastic series I am not surprised it still generates debate....GK3 is probably my favorite GK game because of the story which is very close to my heart and have had an interest in it for ages, way before jumping on the Da Vinci Code wagon hehe I do agree with Sydney being one of the best puzzles ever! It´s so good you can´t compare it to any other puzzle...what mostly shines through the GK series, and something current adventure gamers writers can learn from, is the pure love and passion fortelling the story! Puzzles, inventory, graphics, characters are all built around the story to enhance it and not the other way around. We have all been very lucky to have Jane Jensen as a game writer. She is also a literature writer and it shows! If any adventure game producer reads this forum I hope they understand the importance of the story! Look how long GK has stayed in our memory and our hearts and we are still fondly remembering it!

I couldn't agree more. GK games have what I'd like to call a soul. They're almost perfect. As soon as I start up any of the games, the story grips me and I can't stop playing. The characters are wonderfully done, and if you start with the first game and progress to the last game, you'll notice how much both Gabe and Grace change. Gabe becomes more likeable and less of a macho than in the first game though he's still not what you'd call the perfect son-in-law

Story, puzzles and characters are among the things that make the GK series unique, and I agree with you, Jedi, that developers should look to this "old" series to get some fresh ideas. And I want them to take their time; I've recently had the *uhm* pleasure to see what a game looks like if it's being rushed - Cleopatra, Kheops studios' most recent game, might look terrific but makes one major mistake: It relies too heavily on graphics alone. The main character is pale, uninteresting and doesn't stick with you once you completed the game; not even Cleopatra herself leaves an impression and that is a true shame. The story is very, very thin and not exciting at all, and despite the brilliant graphics the game has no soul. It has no life - ok, that is a problem common with 1st-person-games. Great puzzles, though. I had a feeling when playing it that Kheops wanted to stick to the original release date, so they completed the game in a rush, sacrificing important ingredients. They can do better than this though I seriously doubt if they'll ever make a high quality game like GK. They're just too quick in producing adventure games, every 9 months or so there's a new game released.

Yes I was deeply disappointed about Cleopatra as well. I played about 2-3 hrs and then I got bored; like you said the character is uninteresting and fails to make me care about him. However I am not sure time can change a bad adventure game into a good one...as a writer myself, I know that yes you need to take time to edit and perfect the story but the actual story is either great or bad from the beginning. What these adventure developers need is fewer programmers and more original writers like Jane Jensen and Sokal. I think it´s a matter of seeing the adventure game as more of an interactive story rather than a game with a story if you know what I mean..the story is so central it should be first priority for the developers. Let´s hope they read this forum and get the hint

Oh, but if you already played for about 3 hours you might have been almost done Cleopatra is a very short game - when I played it for the second time, it took me 3,5 hours and I didn't even skip much of the dialogue.
I agree with you on that the story should be the center of a game, not the other way around. But all is not lost; House of Tales for example know how to tell a good story, they're also passionate about it and they get better and better with every game Agon is good as well; I'm currently playing Lost Sword of Toledo and it takes its time to unfold the story. The graphics might not be as stunning as they are in Cleopatra but the game feels a lot better. The main character is really likeable, the puzzles are challenging but not too difficult, the setting is beautiful. I think there are still those developers and producers out there who care for the story as much as we do; let's just hope they get a chance to make their ideas come true

I agree Jehane, there are good producers out there (Culpa Innata anyway?) and I do so love it when great graphics and great story and great puzzles all come together! Here´s to wishing a lots of games in 2008 and 2009 will be like that And about Cleopatra...I found some of the initial puzzles well puzzling LOL Hence my using a lot of time on them and wandering around

I played GK3 because I already had an interest in the Grail conspiracy theories and it was thoroughly enjoyable from that perspective. However some of the puzzles were a bit random. I'll have to dust off the cobwebs and see if I can get it to run on my current setup