Hmmm..let's try this...in no particular order...I realize it's late (would help if I finished reading the whole post before replying, huh?)

Baldur's Gate
Planescape Torment
Thief
Half Life
Tomb Raider (the original)
Deus Ex
Undying
Morrowind
Starcraft
Age of Empires II


So many others I want to include (Icewind Dale, System Shock 2 and Outcast to name a few really close choices) but I think I'll go with these.

wow this is strange. don't know why i would be blocked. i am using my own e-mail address. My provider is comcast which is a major provider so there is no reason your provider should be blocking anything with a comcast address. is there any way you can check if that is the case. i do use an old version of netscape mail but that shouldn't make any difference.

Flotsam,

Congratulations on the excellent work in putting together the list. While my own contribution was made after the list was completed, I certainly wouldn't argue any of the games at the top of the list.

Surprising to me were a number of items which received few or no votes. While I have not played some of the games listed (Princess Maker 2 and Jurassic Park Operation Genesis to name a few), I am surprised at some of the omissions (Starcraft and Warcraft being the largest surprises, along with Everquest) and some which received very few votes (the Age of Empires series, The Sims and Civilization (1,2 or 3)), games which are certainly benchmarks in non-adventure gaming.

Looking at the list it would appear to me that, with some obvious exceptions, our crew here are relative newcomers to the dark side of gaming though obviously we are beginning to open up a bit.

Hi Vik

The Twisty List is more recommendation than a "Best Ever" list and since many folks here are fairly new to anything other than adventure games, the more popular suggestions will be ones that are either newer games or ones that have been popular specifically with Gameboomers at this very forum i.e. Divine Divinity and Zanzarah.

Also, it appears the top vote getters are non-adventure games that all have adventure elements such as a strong story, quests, or puzzles along with combat or action. Do RTS games have that? I don't know, every one I've tried has bored me to tears.

I'm not sure why the Sims isn't more talked about here, but I suspect Sims fans are not interested in many other PC games and don't frequent general gaming sites often. Just a theory.

As far as MMORPG's like Everquest, not many people here play them that I've seen (though I have and like them very much), and I think the twisty list is more about single player game suggestions that don't involve monthly fees <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />

flotsam,

i just had my husband send you e-mail just in case it was netscape related so hopefully you will receive soemthing from stitchman. you don't have attachments blocked by any chance. now i know you never received the e-mail i sent you last week.

Hey Schwab

I can't argue anything that you've said. I'm not a strong RTS player (I tend to tunnel-vision a little too much sometimes) but I find them very challenging from a puzzle-solving standpoint (quite often resource-allocation can be the greatest puzzle of all). I understand they are not always the strongest of stories, if there is one at all, and the storyline primarily being told in cutscenes between segments but some of the people who write these games off without giving them due consideration are the same people who will champion the worst of adventure games (I still play adventure games though I am much pickier now) as "a well-meaning attempt to keep adventure gaming alive". For every truly enjoyable adventure game (a la Syberia, Dark Fall or The Longest Journey), adventure gamers must endure half-a-dozen mockeries (such as Midnight Nowhere) which we buy because "we have to support adventure gaming or the genre will die". The genre will survive because of the quality efforts that are made, not the quantity of hack efforts made to take advantage of our misguided loyalties.

Adventure gamers tend to loathe the other genres because "they're all the same, brainless hacking/shooting/blowing things up and they're all sequels which reflect the lack of originality within the genre - blah,blah,blah" but every genre is susceptible to this and sequels can be as good as the originals (I trace my adventuring roots back to Zork I, II, and III). Many of us, though, are moving past that bias. RPG's are giving us the storylines we have long demanded even though some were there before and we just ignored them (evident by some of the old school RPGs that people have listed, Quest for Glory, the Krondor games). MMORPG's (though I am not a player as I play games on a very haphazard schedule and the thought of a monthly subscription charge to play a game I shelled $40 out for in the first place makes me ill) are developing into a genre that will soon be a creature that cannot be ignored. Simulations and RTS's are also developing with sparks of originality and versatility.

I myself found RTS's quite boring and, with a few exceptions, usually still do. I watched my wife and son become addicted to Lords of the Realm (I and II, haven't tried III yet) and Lords of Magic and couldn't figure out what they were enjoying. I had forgotten my old Commodore-64 days playing Rails West, Temple of Apshai and Tigers in the Snow and other classics from Epyx and SSI (Strategic Simulations Inc). I started again with Starcraft and found a beast that I truly enjoyed. When I finally managed to hold off the Zerg attack and survived the campaign with one measly foot-soldier at the end of the time limit, I felt a sense of exhiliration I rarely felt during an adventure game. Not a greater sense, just a different one. I still don't play many but I don't instantly ignore them as I was wont to in the past.

I feel that RTS's are just different puzzles than the ones you find in adventure games and could addict some of us the same way that Starcraft did for me. Imagine if you will the way first-pers shooter junkies commented on Thief-The Dark Project when it came out. "What do you mean I have to hide and not kill everything in sight?" Now stealth games are their own genre, with further developments in Thief and moving on to things like Hitman and Splinter Cell. Deus Ex crossed an RPG with an action game and a stealth game to create an experience that it couldn't duplicate itself in the sequel.

Puzzles don't always have to be find key-unlock door or join the ipecac flower with the pancake syrup to save yourself from a snake (though I enjoyed that one a lot). Sometimes the puzzle is more subtle than it seems and the quest, part of a much bigger picture.

Now to print out the lists for when I get a bad case of BAAGS again-like everyday


Ingie

Hi all,
Finally overcame the gremlins in the mail so will post some genre details shortly.

Hello again,
What follows is the above numerical list with the top 10 (plus ties) categorised into genre, then the whole list broken up into genre categories. I didn't include the pure adventure titles and left out a few console games.
It seems that rpg's rule the roost.
Greatest thanks to Zanthia for her work


top 10

18 Morrowind (rpg)
18 Divine Divinity (rpg)
11 Baldur’s Gate 1 (rpg)
10 Baldurs gate 2 (rpg)
9 Zanzarah (rpg)
8 Realms of the Haunting (action/adventure)
8 Anachronox (rpg)
7 Outcast (action/adventure)
7 Neverwinter Nights (rpg)
6 American McGees Alice (action)
6 System Shock 2 (action/rpg)
6 Deus Ex (action/rpg)
6 Diablo 2 (action/rpg)
6 Might and Magic 6 (rpg)
6 Beyond Divinity (action/rpg)
6 Thief: The Dark Project (stealth action)


rpg

18 Morrowind
18 Divine Divinity
11 Baldur’s Gate 1
10 Baldur’s Gate 2
9 Zanzarah
8 Anachronox
7 Neverwinter Nights
6 Might and Magic 6
5 Planescape Torment
5 Star Wars – Knights of the Old Republic
5 Gothic
4 Might and Magic 7
3 Morrowind – Blood Moon
3 Gothic 2
2 Betrayal at Krondor
2 Lands of Lore
2 Baldurs Gate – Tales of the Sword Coast
2 Quest for Glory 4
1 Morrowind – Tribunal, Return to Krondor, Dragon Riders, Lands of Lore 3, Avernum 1, Avernum 2, Avernum 3, Might and Magic 8, Wizardry 8, Anvil of Dawn, Wizards and Warriors, Wizardry 7, Quest for Glory 1, Quest for Glory 3, Quest for Glory 2, Quest for Glory 5, Pool of radiance, Icewind Dale, Betrayal at Antara, Baldurs Gate 2 – Throne of Bhaal, Arcanum, Quest for Glory – Dragonfire, Summoner, Fallout, Ultima 7, Ultima Underworld 2,


action/adventure

8 Realms of the Haunting
7 Outcast
4 Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine
4 Tomb Raider 4
4 Silent Hill 2
2 Tomb Raider 1
2 Tomb Raider 2
2 Tomb Raider 3
2 Omikron: The Nomad Soul
2 Prince of Persia 3D
2 Silent Hill 3
1 Darkened Skye, Twinsuns Odyssey, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban,
Harry Potter 2, Dragon Lore 2, Mask of Eternity, Prince of Persia – Sands of Time, The Mummy, Nocturne, Bloodrayne, Resident Evil, Beyond Good and Evil, Alone in the Dark 4


action/rpg

6 System Shock 2
6 Deus Ex
6 Diablo 2
6 Beyond Divinity
4 Dungeon Siege
4 Sacred
3 Diablo 2, Lord of Destruction
2 System Shock
2 Diablo
2 Diablo Hellfire
2 Vampire Masquerade: Redemption
1 Dungeon Siege – Legend of Aranna
1 Nox


stealth action

6 Thief: The Dark Project
2 Thief: The Metal Age
1 Thief: Deadly Shadows


sim and sim/strategy

3 Roller Coaster Tycoon
1 The Sims
1 Ultimate Ride
1 Jurassic Park Operation Genesis
1 Ceasar 3
1 Rise of the Middle Kingdom
1 Zeus


action

6 American McGees Alice
5 Undying
5 No One Lives Forever
3 Half Life
2 Painkiller
2 Splinter Cell
2 Max Payne 1
2 Max Payne 2
1 Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Serious Sam, Mafia, Half Life: Opposing Force, Star Wars: Jedi Knight, Enclave, 007 Nightfire, No One Lives Forever 2, Messiah, Hidden and Dangerous, Grand Theft Auto 3, Severance Blade of Darkness, Hitman, Postal 2


strategy

3 Ghost Master
1 Cultures
1 Neighbours from hell
1 Popoulous: The Beginning
1 Age of Empires
1 Robin Hood: Legend of Sherwood


turn based strategy

1 Heroes Might and Magic 2
1 Alpha Centauri
1 Civillization 2
1 Heroes of Might and Magic 3: Shadow of Death


racing

1 Grand Prix Legends
1 Carmageddon 2

puzzle

1 Puzzle 3D – Bavarian Castle
1 Thinkx

Thanks a lot to Steve and Zanthia for the hard work of putting this together.

I will archive the thread now.