Hi all ! I need to vent this...

In looking for some games to stock up on, I found 3 games I would like to own and play. They are The Perils of Man, Ana's Quest, and Armikrog.

I saw them on Gamer's Gate, a site I used quite often and trusted. The site has a large inventory and these games are all available.

Here is my issue and problem. I started off with one game - The Perils of Man - very cheap at $9.00 but money isn't the issue. My issue is I thought I was buying this game as I did with many games in the past. I got my confirmation and was told to go to MY Library and download the game - as usual.

Well the games is listed in My Library and seems to available BUT ONLY the STEAM Key is there - NO GAME DOWNLOAD !

I looked on the Gamer's Gate Site - and sure enough - if you look deeper into the Game details - it says 3rd Party Software Required ! This means STEAM !

I don't use STEAM, I don't support it, and I would never ever install it on my system - I had too many bad experiences with it so I got rid of it.

Why would I purposely avoid STEAM and go to a site to get a game only to find out that Gamer's Gate site will only sell you STEAM KEY so you have to use STEAM to play your game! Therefore - you Don't get to download the game you purchased and are corned into using STEAM.

Good thing I only bought one $9.00 game from Gamer's Gate.

I would rather pass on these games until another site, GOG.com for example, offers them.

I really hope this trend that forces you to download and install software you DON'T want ( Steam ) goes AWAY.

I don't mind loosing the ten bucks!

Very mad

I don't blame you for needing to vent. It's disconcerting to go to Gamersgate (or elsewhere) and then find out after having purchased a game that it is in effect a redirect to Steam.

Lots of folks like Steam and have no problems with it, but for those who don't, it can make getting certain games problematic. I wish that GOG always got the new games that are released on Steam, but unfortunately this is not always the case.

sureshot, I can understand your frustration, but it is clearly marked on the download of the game that it has DRM and it requires Steamworks to run. There are many download portals that do this, even Amazon for select titles. You have to check it out before purchase anywhere if you are not interested in Steam versions. Many games are only available that way.

Ana

Ana is right. Just make sure you read all the info before buying.

Armikrog is on GOG. I know that's not the issue, just saying.

Hi All,

I didn't see that because I was anxious to get a couple games going now that my summer activities slowed and I need to "stock up" for the winter.

I DID buy and download - Armikrog from GOG ! It was painless and rewarding to get that game and keep on my PC !

I emailed Gamer's Gate to ask for a credit and received a response within a few hours and on Sunday ! What happened was after I thought I purchased the game, because on the site is says "BUY" in a big green bubble, I received their confirmation as usual, and an EMAIL with a link to the DOWNLOAD!!! When I went to the link, all my previous games were in my Library including The Perils of Man BUT there was NO download option on that game - that's when I looked a little closer at the site and the game and saw the DRM - Steam Required.

I have been in touch with Gamer's Gate tech who did sympathize with me but could not offer a refund because I had already clicked on and saw the STEAM KEY ! I advised him that not everyone likes or wants to use STEAM and the game was only $9.99 and not a big loss.

He wrote back saying that its the way game purchases are heading for - that STEAM will be the de-facto way we buy and play games.

I ended with telling him... "The day we loose our ability to choose where we buy product, i.e. a digital game, and we are force to install inferior software on our machines we don't want, would be a sad day for me indeed.

There are horror stories all over the internet regarding Steam and I myself have had a serious problem with it. I would gladly retire from gaming if that ever happened."

Yes Ana - I am seeing that more and more on sites where they sell you a key to use with the STEAMWORKS application. I am not happy with that - I feel the developers should not funnel their product through one and only one venue. I do not understand what goes on in the background when these games are published, but it seem to me that these publishers/developers would only stand to gain if their games were available DRM free through other sites like GOG - Direct2Drive and even Gamer's Gate.

Remember when you bought a game and got a box with the disks, a little booklet, and whatever other promotional material that it came with ??? When that went away, I was also saddened a bit , but I did embrace the fact that I could still OWN a game via a digital download and keep it, make a disk if I desired, or just copy it to another machine if I needed to.

STEAM kills all that !! The Internet is full of STEAM related dislikes, issues, and problems.

I may be swimming upstream on this but I can only hope that sites like GOG, etc., etc. continue and grow.

I agree with you on sites like GOG... But I am one who has used STEAM for several years and never had a problem. But if given a choice, I will definitely go with GOG. I don't think GOG offers the same opportunities for game developers - especially small Indie developers - that STEAM does.

"Anna's Quest" is also available at GOG.
https://www.gog.com/game/annas_quest

Unfortunately "Perils of Man" is not.

I have dozens of games in boxes here and they aren't "mine". They are full of far worse DRM than Steam is. Starforce is one of them. I think we choose to forget that there were codes to put in and if you lost them, you couldn't play. I have 4 Diablo's here because the licensing was revoked because of multi-player misbehaving by my son when he was younger. There was never a time when the games were just free. The only things have changed is where the displeasure is directed to.

And for the few people that have Steam issues, there are far more with no issues. Here are the facts:

Obviously, they are doing something right. I am a Steam user and support them. And they pay their developers which is a HUGE deal if you want more games!

Hi Jenny - Yep got it ! Thank you !

Hi Ana - I am sorry about the Starforce issue on the box sets you have. Yep I do know the stats on STEAM usage and you are correct, lots of people like and use STEAM. What can I say ? Steam is big and they are well established within the gaming community.


My objection to them comes from 2 other issues..

1) When you install their software, your router must open all these ports..

UDP 27000 to 27015 inclusive (Game client traffic)
UDP 27015 to 27030 inclusive (Typically Matchmaking and HLTV)
TCP 27014 to 27050 inclusive (Steam downloads)
UDP 27031 and 27036 (incoming, for In-Home Streaming)
TCP 27036 and 27037 (incoming, for In-Home Streaming)
UDP 4380
TCP 27015 (SRCDS Rcon port)
UDP 3478 (Outbound)
UDP 4379 (Outbound)
UDP 4380 (Outbound)
UDP 1500 (outbound)
UDP 3005 (outbound)
UDP 3101 (outbound)
UDP 28960


There is potential for hackers to gain access to your PC through exploits of these open ports, a subject that could take us days to discuss. Paranoid ? yea !! maybe !! - but computer security is part of my profession. Besides, ports required for Steam cannot be re-mapped to HTTP or reconfigured to a custom port range so you could "hide" your PC/Network for hackers. But again - this could be my paranoid nature.

2) I really want to see any game that is made by any outfit to be available for digital download from a source of MY choice. I don't see why a developer would not want to allow their game to be handled by other sources to reach more people who may want to download the game DRM free.

To play a game - you have to run their client and it has to be connected to the internet unless you configure Off-Line mode; but the game has had to opened at least once while on-line (I believe ).


This is odd to me too..... if you go to Gamer's Gate and GOG for Armikrog for example, Gamer's Gate's version is the STEAM Key version while GOG is DRM Free version and you download the game directly. Therefore, you need to install STEAM on your PC to play the game unless you get it from GOG - then it's just yours to play with adding additional software to your PC.

So yes - they must be doing something right. I think.

Sureshot, not sure if you saw this post I made not too long ago. It explains why not all games are being released on GoG.

New releases on GoG.

Ana

Hi Ana !

Yes, I had forgotten about that post ! I do remember it now that I read it again. If writing to the developers and GOG etc is what it takes to be heard, then that's what I'll do. Guess my gaming slows down in the summertime.

Thank you

Thanks for the link, Ana. That's very useful information. It's a shame that GOG will actually deny acceptance for certain games. I will continue to cast my vote for any games I am interested in. After all, they eventually got TellTale's latest games, so anything could happen.

sureshot, I've been using Steam for several years and don't recall ever having to open any ports on my router to enable it to work. (and i've had about half a dozen routers in as many years due to faults and upgrades - I'm sure I'd remember having to add the config to each one if it were really needed)

I've also gone through every port you listed using an external port scanner (http://www.whatsmyip.org/port-scanner/) and none of them are open on my connection.

Finally, outgoing ports rules in your router are not a vector to attack, because they allow you to connect out to an external system, not an attacker to connect in to your network.

Caveat: I don't knowingly use any Steam video streaming or matchmaking services (I hate online multiplayer gaming), so I don't know if those services would work on my system, but Steam downloads, etc, are certainly not a problem.

gremlin, glad you posted that. I know my husband is an IT Director and has our system locked down tight here, and I've never had him change anything for my steam use.

Ana

I don't know of any home routers that block outbound traffic on any port.
There may be some business routers that block outbound traffic, but this is more sophisticated than is offered to home users. Blocking outbound traffic on a home computer is the job of a software firewall, which may be part of an antivirus suite.

What home routers do block is inbound traffic -- on most if not all ports.
However home routers do not block inbound traffic if it's been initiated by you or a program on your computer. If they did, you couldn't browse the Internet -- you'd send information out, but you'd never receive any webpage back. Your router allows you to receive replies from the Internet (inbound traffic) by allowing you to receives replies on the port that's meant to receive the traffic. So if Steam automatically sends out feelers to somewhere on the Internet, that "somewhere" can reply and your router won't block the traffic. That isn't necessarily a bad thing if you're playing an online game. But there is the possibility it could be exploited by a bad guy.

From what I've read, infections through Steam are usually caused by junk getting through their messaging service -- similar to phishing emails. Some examples:
https://grahamcluley.com/2014/12/wtf-malware-spreads-via-steam-chat/
http://steamed.kotaku.com/warning-scammers-are-hiding-malware-behind-fake-steam-1696247784
https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/3j89ci/do_not_downloadbeta_test_dynostopia_from_steam/
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/steam-chat-spreads-malware,news-20073.html

Malwarebytes has this info on how Steam users can protect themselves
https://blog.malwarebytes.org/online-sec...t-your-account/

I have also seen complaints about Steam processes eating up bandwidth
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2vfsht/steam_viruslike_process_client_web_helper/

Hi all --- You don't have to open ports - STEAM does that automatically via UPnP and STEAM is not alone either. We are IT on Gov't bases - as soon as someone tries to download / install a program, or even brings back a laptop that was on travel with them, alarms go off and peoples PC's get yanked and scrubbed !

Overboard? possibly.

Virus infections get through firewalls and under virus protection software everyday. Many go un-detected for long periods of time.

Is there really a such thing as a perfect lock down, especially on our home systems ? Just trying to air my concerns. If I were playing multiplayer on-line games that rely on an internet connection - then maybe I would consider STEAM ( well - not really ).


As an adventure gamer, I don't even need an internet connection to play these games, AND I shouldn't need one to play them.

I merely mentioned those port openings as an awareness to be diligent on the internet.

I am sorry if I stirred up a nest.

No nest stirred up at all... it all about awareness and, as you say, diligence. My worst problems with the computers I work on is clueless use of the internet.

Yes, almost all of the exploits mentioned by the articles Jenny100 linked to are connected with clueless clicking of links and trusting downloaded content that shouldn't be trusted. Always be cautious about links posted in forums (even GameBoomers, I'm afraid), and don't double click any executable (a screensaver is an executable too) unless you've virus checked it first.

None of the exploits are as a result of someone attacking a home network via open network ports, but by poor internet discipline by a HUMAN user.