So I thought I would make a post about walkthroughs to hear what other adventure players think about them. Should they be used or not? Do they help and enhance the adventure experience or do they diminish it? Do they help us or make us worse at guessing future puzzles? I myself am split about this. I'll quote two experiences as examples of different views about walkthroughs. I remember playing this great game and being stuck in it for like DAYS. I was about to give it up and was getting quite upset! That's when I gave in and checked the walkthrough and it turned out it was something I missed reading in the manual (it was actually something hidden in the manual), so I was really thankful for walkthroughs then. But I also remember with a good deal of nostalgia playing Prince of Persia 1 a long time ago and back then walkthroughs were not so readily available and I got stuck somewhere for a MONTH. I mean it was insane...but then one day I just thought about doing something totally unexpected (it did not make much of a logic sense) and boom it worked and to this day I remember that day as one of my best adventure games memories!

So are walkthroughs goor or bad? What do you think?

I do not use a walkthrough unless it is absolutely necessary. There are many games that i couldn't ever finish them without the help of a walkthrough. I think that the limited use of a walkthrough ex when you stuck on a puzzle helps the gamer not to give up and get frustrated with the game and eventually drop it. The unlimited use ex every step and a pick at the walkthrough has as result not completely enjoy the story and the surprises each game has. I did that once and know i don't remember the game at all... I won't do that again but i think i'll always need the help of a walkthrough to complete a game. Some people just don't do well with a specific kind of puzzles...

I remember being stuck for 2 months or so in Monkey Island 1 and than a friend told me why the monkey is shown to follow Guybrush only near the "Giant Monkey Head" and I felt really stupid I think walkthroughs prevent this and a lot of "I’d never think of doing that" situations

So you are both saying walkthroughs are good when used moderately? How many times would you say qualify for moderate use? once or twice per game?
I do agree that some puzzles are not meant for everyone...however they really should be made in a way that everyone could figure it out. I remember in the last game I played I was stuck for a while and resorted to the walkthrough. It turned out that a door was open when before it had been closed. That I think is simply bad writing. I don't like games where you have to wander around constantly to see if something has changed...(evil under the sun anyone?) . So maybe a truly perfect game does not require a walkthrough?

Gamers as individuals are so different that a puzzle that's easy for one will be difficult for another. I've played children's adventure games (Sponge Bob and Pajama Sam) that I needed help at one point to get unstuck.

One of the things I've enjoyed most about gaming with my children is watching how they approach puzzles and solve (or don't solve) them. Sometimes they see clues I don't and vice versa. Other times they understand how to move in such a way that something became possible that I didn't understand, even though I'd been over that area and clicked on every directional arrow or moved in every possible way (or at least I'd thought I had).

What's thinking out of the box for me may be just common sense for you.

For that reason, I don't think it's possible to design a game in which everyone understands the puzzles so perfectly that no one will ever need help solving them.

I doubt that I would think about a game for months and suddenly come up with a puzzle solution, either. There's too much else going on elsewhere in my life! Though occasionally I do think about a game's plot and/or characters for months after playing.

I hear you Becky...and I agree with you. And may I add, were I to play prince of persia now, I would not have time to wait a month to solve a puzzle! hehe
I agree with you that some puzzles may be straightforward to you, but not to me and vice versa, however I must admit I had to use a walkthrough mostly for games where the next logical step was not..well logical at all! I think non-logical puzzles and puzzles that do not serve the story may ruin a game and may prompt some people like me to resort to walkthroughs unecessarily...

I try not to use walkthroughs until I am really stuck, but I do use them for mazes. I hate mazes, especially ones like the one in a Delaware game where the corridors all looked exactly the same and I couldn't tell if I was going forward or backward. That type of maze just requires repeat repeat repeat

Logic puzzles and inventory puzzles I will keep trying forever.

If I am so frustrated that I am about to throw out the game I will use a walkthrough.

The best games are the ones that are hard but logical and just need a little ( or a lot) of brain power to figure out. I don't need a walkthrough for those. To me mazes are simply a waste of my time.

I use a walkthrough 2 - 4 times in some games, and not at all in others.

orchid

I think it depends on the game some are too simple but far from perfect and need no walkthrough (CSI: Hard Evidence - my firs thought ), some just can't solve without one even that i have beat them several times (Monkey Island 2 )

// on the other line i agree with orchid girl

Hey jedi, i look for not to consult walkthroughs, but he has times that i must to see when i am stuck for a long time, for example myst revalation it is a very difficult game and maybe without a walkthroughs i can not finished game.

I am not against walkthroughs, but i think that we have that uses them in extreme cases. I used many time the walkthroughs and i am glad for to exist.I love walkthroughs of the Mag that wonderful and very well explained. Thanks Mag

Love Maria

HI phoebe, yes walkthroughs can really save you sometimes from throwing the game out of the window However I always or almost always feel bummed after consulting the walkthrough, either because a) I would have gotten there anyway had I given it a bit more thought or b) the game was in my opinion badly written in a way that the next step could not be logically deduced. Either way I get sad AND I find that the more I use walkthroughs, the less patient I am with the next puzzles.

A mid way is to use the program called Universal Hint System which is really good as it does not give way anything other that the only thing you need to know to proceed...so I end up feeling slightly less bummed I guess

I've solve puzzles that seemed very logical, and then I've seen other gamers post that they couldn't see any logic to the puzzle at all, or that the puzzle was way too hard. (This makes me feel superior, for a very brief moment.)

Then I'll be in a different game with a different puzzle and struggle, finally look at the walkthrough, and think "I never would have thought of that," and the next day read another gamer who posts that everything in that game was waaaaay too easy.

Then I feel really stupid.

Sometimes my mind seems to work just like the puzzle designer's. Other times, in a different game, it seems to not work at all.

If I read a solution in a walkthrough and think: "I never would have thought of that," I don't feel bad. Because I never would have thought of that. If I read a solution and think: "ARGHGHGH! I was so close! If only I'd thought about it just a bit more!" That's when I feel badly. And then the next time I'm stuck in that particular game, I try not to use the walkthrough.

But for games where I know I'd never think in the way that would have allowed me to solve the puzzle -- in those games I do get tempted way too much to just glance at the walkthrough.

I do think that there are gamers out there who are so smart and experienced (and tolerate frustration so well) that they rarely need a walkthrough at all. But if these were the only people who bought adventure games, the industry would be in not-so-good shape.

I think having walkthroughs available is great. As others pointed out, everyone's brains work differently and everyone's gaming experience is different. There are folks who enjoy struggling with tough puzzles and those who don't and would rather not get "stuck" somewhere and would prefer to treat their gaming experience like an interactive novel.

If I'm really into a game, get totally stuck and don't want to consult a walkthrough, I use the UHS site for hints so I don't get any spoilers. Then there are games where I'm only moderately enjoying them and end up treating them like interactive fiction (i.e., don't feel like solving the puzzles and just want to get through it for whatever reason).

Walkthroughs can also help to trouble-shoot whether or not you've got a buggy game. I got totally stuck early on in Paradise and consulted a walkthrough to redo the game step by step, and lo and behold, bug ridden game even with the patch so I shelved it.

Also like others, time is short these days and I don't think I'd be able to handle being stuck on a game for months on end like back in the day before walkthroughs were available.

So in short, walkthroughs = good.

Hi Misa, I am glad you are glad for walkthroughs! I must admit I have used them on several games and I am thankful I could use them of course! However the games that really stuck and left an impression on me are those where I did not use a walkthrough at all, so for me the walkthrough often ruined my gaming experience, but it could very well be like you say that the game was not engaging enough to begin with and I just wanted to get it over with...horrible feeling by the way! I do agree that I also tend not to want to use a walkthrough on games that mean more to me. Also am I the only one who feels like is getting stupid for using walkthroughs? I mean I feel my puzzle-solving abilities are getting worse everytime I consult a walkthrough.

I wish I had the patience-and the time-to try for days to solve puzzles. When I figure out things on my own it is so much more rewarding. There are some games that are much more user friendly and logical( Syberia 1&2, the Nancy Drews, TLJ&Dreamfall, for ex.) than others that have obscure and difficult puzzles that don't make sense at all(Myst Revalation and Schism,for ex.) For these frustrating situations, where I would lose patience and give up, I copy a WT to my hard drive and only refer to it when I'm ready to give up-my patience level is usually about 2 hours. And then sometimes even with the WT, some of these puzzles are very hard, so I think, how on earth could I have possibly figured it out myself?

So, yes, I do use them when necessary-and thank goodness for all those kind souls who write them for us-without them, my game playing experience would be frustration, not relaxation, BTW-many MaG!

No doubt we must be thankful for those who write them!! My hat goes out to them.

My query was whether the walkthrough enhanced or dimished the experience of an adventure gamer, rather than their vailidity at all.

Most of the time, I think they clearly enhance. With Discworld Noir, for instance, I was so frustrated with that "notebook" feature by the end that I used the walkthrough a lot for about the last tenth of the game, and enjoyed that part of the game much more than I had the earlier sections that I'd solved mostly on my own.

I think the only time walkthroughs diminish the experience is if, after using them, I feel I've somehow cheated myself by not solving the puzzles that I really could have taken on myself. This doesn't happen very often, because once I begin to understand the designer's mind, I do whatever I can not to use the walkthrough. And if I find that I don't understand the designer's mind, I don't feel I've cheated myself in any way -- I'm grateful that I could finish the game at all.

Hi Becky,

so walkthroughs are good if you don't really understand the game puzzles and they are not so good if you caved in knowing afterwards that you could have solved the puzzle after all? I do agree but I think it's a fine line. Oftentimes I don't know I could have solved the puzzle until I've seen the walkthrough, so I am not sure whether I gave up because I really couldn't or because I lost patience.I guess ideally I wished that all games were indeed designed to be solved without the need for a walkthrough by anyone so that only those who lose patience would resort to them , but as it was pointed out before what seems logical for someone might not be so obvious for someone else...

jedi, seems you cover all aspects of the mater the case to wonder if you could have solved it situation I usually experience as "So close... argh!"....
I've many ties asked myself if I truly enjoy some games, but then did you experienced the situation: " I will find how to continue with this game and will not see any walkthrough even if my eyes bleed from pixel-hunting!"? it's just a matter of "me, the game and what happens next"
differences in puzzle understanding - my grandmother says " taste does not have a brother" and it applies to most things and as Becky mentioned the "notebook" feature (i must add +scent-matching grr.) some puzzles or similar experience (avoid-a-troll in dreamfall) are... well of personal skill for example slider or similar puzzles i leave for my girlfriend to solve ( i too stupid orc :))
if they design games to be solved without the need of walkthrough - I don't thing that they will be played by adventure-game fans

(must add avoid-a-troll was why i stopped playing the game for a fiew weeks and double monalisa slider in "Secrets of Da Vinci: The Forbidden Manuscript" was well too much for me )


cheers

Hi,
I use walkthroughs when I have worked, for days and still can't come up with an answer. Then frankly sometimes with a walkthrough it still takes me days to get through a part of the puzzle. I'm still working on 80 days. If it weren't for Mag, I would have given up gaming, and went back to other hobbies, as I insist on finishing, what I start. I still have three games I have been working on for a year. Mag, Sue, Jenny are my hero's.
Charllotte

I look at a walk through if I am realy stuck .I like to do what I can on my own but some games would nt get finished .Mazes and sound puzzals are my weakness .I am tone deaf and no sense of direction .The games we have today they are bigger and you could land up wandering around for ever in some of them

Great to see all these different and yet similar views on the matter...I guess most of adventure gamers are glad walkthroughs are around.

I still got one unwnswered question...do you also feel that each time you use a walkthrough it just makes you less able/patient to solve the next puzzle and/or game? I have experienced that at a point where I used a walkthrough about 6-7 times for a particular game and then I found myself stuck with puzzles that in the past I would have found obvious. I guess that for me I must not understimate the importance of "training" through the puzzles: the more you solve without a walkthrough, the "smarter" you get...anyone else feels this way or differently?

I always find that if I actually print out the walkthrough I don't try nearly as hard as I would if I didnt have such quick access to the answers! For that reason I never print them out, and since I only have internet at work, it makes me try a little harder! I rarely get thru a game without a peek or two , but I enjoy them MUCH more if I can do most of it myself! . I had to take my first cheating peek at the Lost Crown walkthrough yesterday (those darn sound puzzles) and I was disapointed in myself cause I thought I was going to get all the way thru it without looking!
I guess my answer is - I think walkthroughs are needed and much appreciated , but only when I am totally stuck!

Hi

I like to know a walkthrough is available - just in case - but I never print one out and I keep a copy on my machine in such a way that I have to completely quit and come out of the game if I want to read it ....

Cheers.

Mad

I actually think that using a walkthrough makes me more patient with the next puzzle I'm stuck on. I try not to use WT's but sometimes I have to. Like Becky, often I will find that I would never ever have solved that on my own, and am glad I stopped frustrating myself. But when it is a case of "Gosh, I was almost there" I remember that the next time I am stuck, and keep trying for a bit longer. Often I get it.



I do agree that I always feel "smarter" when I can solve the puzzles on my own, and definitely think that as you play, you learn how the developer's mind works--at least a little bit.

I'm glad walkthroughs are there, even when I don't use them, since I know I don't have to be stuck any longer than I want to be.

The hint forum is great too--if you just want a gentle push or have reached the "just tell me what to do" stage.

Hi looney,

funny how you experience the opposite thing , that is that you feel more patient with the next puzzle if you have used the walkthrough with the previous puzzle. Funny how minds work differently! I guess I feel walkthroughs make me lazy and they tempt me a lot! It's a love-hate relationship: I am glad they are there when I need them, but at the same time I hate to know that they are there LOL Go figure...I guess the answer is indeed to use them moderately.