Hi MaG,

i cannot believe that you already solved the game!
I bought the game yesterday evening (german time) when i read at JustAdventure that it had been released. Of course i bought it and started playing right away

Please tell me: When did you start playing? How long took it you to solve the game? Did you need
a hint somewhere? How good is the game? Is it as good as Rhem II (which is my favorite)? Are the puzzles hard? Was there a time when you were seriously stuck for a while? I once emailed Knut that the puzzles in Rhem III were a bit too easy and he promised to make them more difficult in Rhem 4 again :-) So, i now have to get under the shower and then continue playing!

Absolutely no spoilers please!

Mike

I am looking forward to hear Mag's answer, but my opinion is, Rhem 4 is much more eaiser than the rest of the series. I have been able to make some progress in the game, I needed the walkthru only once (for a missing hotspot). As you know main difficulty in Rhem series is, clues are right in in front of you but they are too obscure to make connection to puzzles. In Rhem 4 most of the clues are very clear; after playing for 4 hours I checked the walkthrough to rate my progress and I have seen that I have completed around %25 of the game, and believe me I am usually worse than your average adventure game player ! Hovewer, I am sure that game will become much more challenging at later stages.

Maybe I am misjudging the games difficulty because I am an experienced Rhem player. Although none of the puzzles in Rhem 4 are copies of their relatives from previous games, I think I somehow managed to learn to "think like Knut Muller" and "see a puzzle from his eyes". I think this also shows integrity of the series, you are not just playing a set of random puzzles, they are a part of the world and its philosophy.

By the way, mike_bn I agree with you on Rhem II, that game had some of the most wicked puzzles ever.

I also read somewhere that walkthru writers and reviewevers usually get a copy of the game much earlier than its public release and they can also get in touch with developers if they are stuck. I think that must be the reason why we receive reviews and walkthroughs of the games just after they have been released. Otherwise, despite her unmatched puzzle solving ability, I don't think MaG would be able to finish a game and write a walkthru in just one day ! Pelase correct me if I am wrong.

Hi Mike and Kemal,

Check the credits and see that Dennis and I are part of the group of beta testers. That is why we played the game before the release.

Being beta testers, I personally do not talk about the testing and the beta game unless I have permission. Please understand.

I personally think RHEM 4 is more colorful, easier to navigate and has the most ingenous, twisty puzzles in the series.

I think I can say - I blew my brain on some of the (pre-release) puzzles. YES - Dennis and Knut helped a LOT.

Happy Gaming!

Hi MaG and Kemal,

first of all, sorry for putting my last post in the wrong thread.I was so excited about Rhem 4 i didn't realize it was just the hint section.

Well, your two statements about the difficulty are quite contradictory. Kemal considers himself to be an average player and finds the game much more easier than the rest of the series and Mag says almost the opposite. I don't know what to make of that. No offense intended, but MaG are you maybe influenced being in cooperation (as a beta tester) with Knut and therefore unconsciously not so objective on rating the puzzle difficulty? Again, absolutely no offense intended, i am just trying to find an explanation for such a drastic different assessment of the puzzles difficulty. One the other hand, Kemal has only played 25% of the game, so that maybe is the reason. Anyway, hopefully you are right and the game is really difficult with great puzzles ;-)

Well, maybe i should stop wondering and just continue playing the game.
At least, i am stuck quite at the beginning of the game and i consider myself a good puzzle solver. I mean, i solved Rhem II and Schizm I without a walkthrough and most gamers agree that these games aren't easy.

MaG, of course i understand that you don't want to talk about the beta testing in detail without permission. If you are allowed to reveal it, do you know how many beta testers have been testing the game? How did you become a beta tester?
Did you write to Knut and sort of applied for it?

Cheers
Mike

I based my observation(s) on my experience - not from relationships. In my job-responsibilities - I have to be impartial.

You have to understand - I played the beta - with less clues.

Please tell me what you think even halfway through the game.
The first part - entrance to new RHEM is a stroll for old Rhem gamers.

Yes - enjoy the gaming - savor it and when you are done - you will feel lost (like we did). You will say I want more...

Check the credits and see how many beta testers there are.

I betaed Rhem 2, 3 and 4 for Knut.
If I remember correctly, it just followed after my connection with Knut on the Rhem 1 walkthrough.

GameBoomers Staff (and selected members) have been beta testing some games for developers throughout its existence. They ask us to do so. We do not publicize it.

Ok, that explains why kemal thinks its easy.



Then i must be having a bad day.
I am stuck early in the game.

No hints please!

If you have any questions about hints - please post at Hints forum. Have fun.

Ha! I had the same problem, mainly because

This is more a tip than a spoiler.

Playing again and i am loving it.
I finally succeeded in


Based on what i encountered in the new part of Rhem i think MaG could be right, it seems to me that there are some wonderful puzzle waiting to be solved.

Unfortunately i have to stop playing now for 12 days, because this is the next time a friend of mine comes visiting me. We always have our gaming sessions in which we play simultaneous on to different pcs without giving hints to each other. Sort of a competition who is the better gamer :-)
It really makes fun to talk about the game and trying to figure out what the other person has achieved so far without giving or receiving hints.

I am always happy to hear from other players about their Rhem 4 experience, but when you post, don't give any hints please!
I want to solve the game totally on my own.

This is such a great game. In my view, the best Rhem yet. Its like visiting the old neighbourhood. Had to stand on my head to figure out the disorienting crystal room and I forgot to write down the flashing light code, but the challenges are welcome. Now I am fiddling with the coloured prisms. Thanks MAG.

You're welcome. Enjoy the game.

I started playing Rhem 4 and I'm enjoying it a lot again. The start was also a bit rough for me. I like the way ingame clues are given now, not all hidden in a central location as in Rhem 3. This time I'm using 'Dia' (MS Visio style program) to draw a complete map of Rhem 4. I look forward to hours of fun.

Well I finally completed the game...

Yes I was a bit jumpy on calling the game 'easiest in the series' but first couple of puzzles were really not a big challenge for those who played the first three games. I think this 'introduction' part was a bit too long (Maybe Knut Muller didn't want to scare newcomers to series), but after that part it completely have gone to different realm.

Rhem 4 contains some of the most clever 'multi-layered' puzzles ever done in adventure gaming history, remember other games where you have to match colors, numbers and shapes ? Rhem 4 takes it to completely a new level (much more description about puzzles will be spoiling the game so I stop), I think this is why MaG says it it is the best in the series. By the way a BIG thanks goes to her, without her wonderful walkthrough game would be a headache instead of pleasure.

Talking of walkthrough, I need it only once in later stages of the game, beacuse I wasn't observing creafully enough and I was a bit impatient to finish the game. In other so-called puzzle adventures you need walkthrough because of unclever and 'you have to read the developers mind to solve this' type of puzzle design. When you read the walkthrough for a Rhem game your usual reaction is "My g*d, the guy who developed this game must be a genious !!". Rhem 4 is no exception..

I think that is all to tell about my experience. Now I am already curious about the next release. Will there be a Rhem 5 ? No matter how much I love the series, I would really prefer that Mr. Muller discovers some new territory in a completely different world and different types of puzzles.

This sounds great, Kemal!

What interests me the most is what you call 'the first couple of puzzles' that you think
were very easy. Do you mean the first part ending when you ...

Or do you even mean some puzzles after that?
Because i just walked around a bit in the new area
and there was almost nothing i could solve immediately. As i said, i only played half an hour while in this new area, though.

Please reply without hints, tips or spoilers!

And honestly, did you use the walkthrough only once? Or just once in 'in later stages of the game' ;-)

Hi mike_bn,

Yes I exactly mean the part with the black crystal and + small part of the new area. In the new area there are about 4-5 puzzles connected to each other and I think one of them is very tricky.

After that part, there are 2-3 major puzzles in the mega-obscure category, and there are also minor ones which lets you take a breath in all this puzzle-fest.

There is nothing wrong with not solving a thing in half an hour. We are talking about RHEM here !
How I wish that only %10 of rest of the adventure games in the market were as complex as this game

In total I have used the walkthrough two times (honestly :D); one at the beginning of the game for missing a hotspot, and one at the later stages because I was very confused and near to finish the game. I must admit that it was not a quick check on, I completely followed the solution of a specific puzzle from there.

I get the idea that you love challenges You will definitely like latter parts of the game.

Enjoy

Thanks for the info, Kemal.
It would have been very depressing if you had told me that you considered the puzzles in the second area easy as well ;-)

So you used the walkthrough only twice?
Then you definitly are a very, very good puzzle solver in my opinion. Definitly not - to quote you -
'usually worse than your average adventure game player.' I mean, as you said, we are talking about Rhem here. I know lots of people who aren't dumb at all and would not be able to solve half of the puzzles in Rhem II for example.

And you are right - i love a good puzzle challenge. I solved Rhem II and Rhem III without using a walkthrough and will never forgive myself that i looked up the last puzzle in Rhem I: At that point, I had not yet realized that in a Rhem game EVERYTHING can have a meaning, even a stupid
, if i recall it correctly.

Currently I'm a bit overwhelmed by the new freedom I gained after I found one fragment and the area open to me is huge. I'm not sure I love or hate a certain category of puzzle which seems to be new in Rhem 4 and all around. I only say I have been playing without any hints so far.

Thanks for your kind words mike_bn, but I must confess that, the reason I could solve Rhem 4 without getting much help is due to fact that I have played (and studied) previous three games several times very carefully (and I consulted MaGs walkthrough A LOT during my first runs on these). No matter how intricate it is, puzzles in Rhem share some common logic and rules (for example you have already pointed one of them => Even the most stupid thing can have a meaning), so my experience on previous games helped me a lot in my first -almost non cheating- Rhem experience. Having said that don't get the idea that I have beaten the game easily, I completely lost my mind on some puzzles and was struck for a loooong time. Patience is the key to survive in this game.

If you had solved Rhem 2 and 3 without a single peak on walkthrough, you are a far better player than I am. I think that you will not be as miserable as me near the end of Rhem 4

Kemal, thanks for the compliment. But don't get the impression solving Rhem II / Rhem III was easy for me.
In both games, there were several points where I was seriously, completely stuck.
But for me, this is an important part of a good gaming experience: I just love the thrill of the agony, followed by the ecstacy after having solved a really great puzzle. This is what constitutes a great puzzle-adventure for me.
And this is the reason why Rhem II is, for me, the best game ever after Riven. Hopefully Rhem IV will join this list.

I'm glad that you have mentioned Riven ! That game is also a masterpiece of puzzle-environment-logic integration, I think Knut Muller must have been inspired by it a lot.

Ah, all these discussion about Rhem and its puzzles reminds me how empty I feel after solving it Why there aren't more games like it... I understand most of the community enjoys to focus on environments, characters and story more than puzzle solving... But that is so unfair for us who can only get 1 or 2 puzzle heavy games each year ! Where did the rocket science spirit of adventure playing have gone ?? (Sorry for being off the tread but I just couldn't keep myself)

Yes, this is exectly the reason why i still rate Riven higher than Rhem II: the puzzles were beautifully integrated in the environment and they all made sense. And Riven told a fascinating story, if you took the time to explore the island in detail.
In Rhem, as much as i love them, the puzzles just exist without any plausible explanation. And the Kales-Zetais-Meneandes storyline doesn't have any depth at all. But on the other hand, this maybe is intended. It's all about beautiful, wonderful puzzles.

By the way, do you already know our website www.savegameserver.com, an archive where you can upload and request savegames? You can even organize your own saves in an area similar to 'myebay'. It would be great if you would upload your Rhem IV saves there. There is already a request for the game.

mike_bn I have checked the website, it is really cool ! Unfortunately, that player asks a save from beginning phase of the game and I overwrote all of my saves from that part All of my saves are from near the end of the game. This because I do not use the save feature to 'save' my game at all (autosave feature nicely does this job), I use it 'teleport' myself around the gameworld to access clues&observations more quickly. (Sometimes I am just too lazy to write them down )Anyway, if somebody would need a save for the endgame I would be happy to upload it.

In addition, you are right about Rhem's story, I really don't know why it exists at all. Rhem is all about puzzles.

Well, although the Rhem-story is shallow to say the least, i still feel it's better than no story at all. At least, the game conveys a reason why i put up with these difficult, agonizing puzzles: I have to help these strange brothers in finding one stupid artifact/key/map/fragement after another

I wonder why Knut hasn't put any effort into developing a rich, complex story alongside the puzzles. Maybe it would have been too time-consuming. I am sure he would have been able to, but he does the contrary. And he does it so stubbornly, consistently that it somehow works for me.

And, Kemal, please upload some saves of the latter stages of the game
I would feature you on the main site in return

Edit: @Kemal: Or just one save right before the ending

Knut, you wizard of winding paths, of "what the heck do I do now??" and of "where have I ended up now???", you've done it yet again! I've just returned from a stroll on the "Dark side" (replayed some FF games)and found out RHEM 4 had finally been released. I am having a ball so far. For those of you who haven't yet played it, I went to bed at 6 hours ago and here I am, ready to play again. This game isn't addictive AT ALL.

MaG: I just saw your walkthrough of the game. 61 pages at my display settings! Your longest WT yet for a Rhem game I believe?

As for breaching confidentiality agreements, I am in total agreement with you. I helped a little with the UruLive beta and whether you are dealing with an independant game developer or with a multinational, you do not want to breach an NDA, especially for someone in your position. News and rumours travel fast and if I were in your shoes MaG, I would NOT want to risk this site's great reputation by spilling the proverbials.

Well back to the game!

On Saturday, my friend Jochen visited me and we had our first long Rhem IV session (12 hours ;-)
I must say that i didn't perfom well at all. I have found only one fragement and there are numerous locations where i feel that they are
quite independent of each other and i am stuck everywhere. I only solved a few minor puzzles here and there. But its my fault - i neglected the most important rule when playing a Rhem game - making notes of EVERYTHING you encounter, everything can have a meaning. I was sloppy in that departement
Moreover, i am out of practice, too few games of that category are published nowadays

But i am having a ball playing the game. I just love beeing overwhelmed by this puzzle overload. I know this sounds nerdy, but puzzle adventures are my favorite games by far.

Anyone else still playing the game?
Let me know how you are doing but WITHOUT the slightest hints at all please.